How far does she get from the handler before falling out of drive?

Do you mean how far will she range? Usually about 30 feet max., and only if she can still see her handler.

I think that Ed hit the nail on the head with his post. Play seems to be the number one issue here; it's the foundation for this work. If we can solve that, then in the best case scenario, other behaviors will fall into place.

I have a couple of questions and a couple of thoughts.

1) How old is the dog? Could she be going through a fear period?

2) Has the handler been doing a lot of obedience training using the compulsion method? If the handler is doing a lot of compulsion type obedience training, it could be the reason why the dog won't range. She could be looking for direction from her handler because that's all she knows how to do.

3) How many toys does the dog have laying around the house? If she has free access to toys at all times, that could be part of the reason that she's not interested in play. If this is the case, I would suggest that the handler pick up all toys except for a recreational bone and that a toy only be brought out after she has done something to earn it and be put away while she still has interest in the toy.

4) Is this dog doing a refind or is she doing a bark indication at the subject? I'm curious because I don't understand why she returns to the handler after receiving her toy. Will she play tug? If she will, it would be easier to keep her at the subject. Will she stay with the subject if she gets a food reward rather than a play reward?

5) For this type of type of dog, victim loyalty would need to be built up. To do this, the handler cannot be involved in praising the dog when she makes the find. The subject has to be more interesting than her handler.

I know...sometimes more easily said than done!!

6) If the issue is confidence, I would get the dog into an agility class pronto! I have seen this work wonders with one of the dogs on the team that I belong to and she is now a mission ready dog who will make 200 to 300 meter finds.

I think that I've asked more questions than I've answered but I hope that I've at least given you some food for thought <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Natalie
http://vegamalinois.tripod.com

Natalie, those are all valid questions. I'll answer them as best as I can, and see if my answers shed any more light.

1) She is over one year of age.

2) I am not positive, but from what I am observing, I would have to say yes.

3) I do not know that. Her toy is a tug. We've talked about it a little, but I don't recall any details.

4) Right now, the dog just finds the subject. No refind, no alert. She will tug, but, from what I have observed as the "subject", I don't believe that she tugs in play. I believe that to her, it's serious. She's not all that interested in food.

5) I agree. We've talked about subject loyalty, and have done everything we can to be as interesting as possible, when we are the "subjects". Her handler is great about fading into the background, but the dog won't stay with the subject if "dad" is too far away for her comfort zone.

Another thought I had, was that her handler needs to teach her that outing is a positive thing. I understand that to some dogs, the "out" can be stressful. I think that her handler should work harder to teach her that giving up the toy will bring more satisfaction than holding on to it.

I will pass the agility class idea on to him, see if he's interested. Maybe the combination of the inducive training and learning new skills will boost the dog's confidence a little, and give the handler some ideas.

A few more thoughts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And probably more questions too!

You seem to think that compulsion type obedience training may be being used with this dog. Do you think that the owner might be willing to try and use more motivational techniques? Instead of a food reward he could use a play reward with her. This way she will learn to associate play as a reward for a job well done and it will be fun for her.

I also agree that she should be taught the out. But she needs to taught to out in the least stressful manner possible. We have an 8 month old Australian Kelpie pup on the team who has an awesome out. It really helps to be able to intermittently reward him for his bark indication (he's being trained for disaster as his handler is a fire fighter). I can get some barks out of him and reward...then get more barks and reward again.

Swanston wrote:
Right now, the dog just finds the subject. No refind, no alert. She will tug, but, from what I have observed as the "subject", I don't believe that she tugs in play. I believe that to her, it's serious. She's not all that interested in food. .

Is she being defensive when she plays tug? If so, I'm really beginning to think that this is a confindence issue. I take it that if you were to play ball with her, she would just head back to her handler? Another thing to try is that when she heads back to her handle, he just takes her toy, packs it up and ignores her by putting his back to her. The subject could have a couple of toys to try and induce her back to him/her.

Swantson wrote:
5) I agree. We've talked about subject loyalty, and have done everything we can to be as interesting as possible, when we are the "subjects". Her handler is great about fading into the background, but the dog won't stay with the subject if "dad" is too far away for her comfort zone.

It looks like the handler will have to stay in her comfort zone and slowly increase the distance away from her so that she will play with the subject and doesn't get stressed out by her handler's absence.

I think that an agility class will help... at least to some degree. This seems to be a problem that is going to take time to remedy.

Even though she's a great scenting dog, she might not have what it takes to be a SAR dog. We had a dog on the team who was an exceptional scenting dog. His problem was that he was afraid of new people and situations. He wouldn't play with subject either unless he knew the person.

Good luck! I always hope that a dog can overcome it's problems and make it to mission ready status.

Natalie

http://vegamalinois.tripod.com

Thanks for your input. I think I've received some excellent advice all around. Thanks to everyone who responded.