I think anyone can make that mistake based on what a web site doesn't say.

Here is what I have discovered: Unless the training method is clearly defined, chances are excellent that it's compulsion-based training.

And no one makes more fun of and is more dismissive of marker training than an old-style yank-n-crank trainer.

I saw that story about teaching the puppy not to bolt out the door and cringed. That is not positively reinforcing nor relationship building. I used a modified version of Ed's technique for crate gates and doors. I don't have to slam the dog into the gate or door. I just have to swing it closed until they figure out what is wanted (which is Sit and Wait for Okay to move forward). Maybe it takes more repetitions, but my dogs are building a great default Sit when they want to move forward with me.

When I started this process, I would click when they Sat, and give them a treat to let them know that is what I expected at all gates, doors, basically any entry of any kind (leaving the curb, into a park, etc.). Now I do random reinforcement, and use words or gestures as needed (depending on distraction level).

I can't imagine trying to teach my dogs everything we have covered in this past year with my clicker (and marker words) and a pouch full of treats.

We are at the point now where we can take walks without any of these things, and they will give me the behaviours we need to walk safely through the neighbourhood. We try to do this once a day, just to continue to hone our skills as we graduate to other training tasks.

I've actually had a hard time finding places that DO clearly describe their methods. I just kind of assumed that the "old school method of training" wasn't around anymore because there's such a wealth of information nowadays on positive reinforcement training (and is proven to work better).

Amanda, I hope you haven't completely dismissed the idea of taking your puppy to structured classes put on by a training facility in your area. Books and DVDs are great (I have shelves full of them!), but for a first-time trainer, as you describe yourself, there is nothing quite like getting instant feedback from an experienced instructor who observes you and can guide you through the steps and answer your questions as they may pop up.

Honestly, I would contact the training facility Ingrid linked you to and ask if they can provide recommendations for the Calgary area. Based on what I saw on their website, I would love to train with them myself!

 Quote: amanda gazzard

I've actually had a hard time finding places that DO clearly describe their methods. I just kind of assumed that the "old school method of training" wasn't around anymore because there's such a wealth of information nowadays on positive reinforcement training (and is proven to work better).

I'd ask first, for step one in my weeding-out process, and then visit a class for each one on the short list.

No I haven't completely dismissed the idea of taking my puppy to a structured class. I honestly have not decided what I'm going to be doing yet. But if my puppy countdown serves me correctly (which it should it only started yesterday!) i have 62 days to figure it out. Or a little longer even. But even if I end up doing some training myself eventually, an initial puppy class is very important to me. I would like to socialize my puppy in a controlled setting. Even though I grew up with dogs, I plan on training this dog much more than them, and I don't know if I can do it for the first time without going to a class. So I don't know yet. But this thread has given me some great ideas.

One thing I really like and respect about this site is Mr. Frawley’s approach to the fact that everyone who owns a dog is a dog trainer.

I think the words “Obedience Classes” can be misleading. To me it says that dogs entering the class are somehow disobedient when in fact it’s generally the owner (trainer) that lacks the skills to guide the desired behavior. I’ve always felt “Dog Owner Training” was much more appropriate.

I’ve heard a couple times that “my dog” failed obedience class. This always makes me bite my tongue because who’s failing who here. Who didn’t fully understand what was being taught, follow through with the homework or seek out a different/better method more suited to their dog’s learning style?

I believe a good professional trainer is someone that obviously knows dogs but just as important, needs to be able to connect with the human in a mentoring relationship - not just someone with an ability to bark off orders. Someone that sparks inspiration and provides meaningful insight to new owners on how their dog learn.

Personally, as has been mentioned, I don’t think you can find any clearer, more up-to-date methods than you can in the wealth of resources that make up this site. In daily life, simply finding like-minded, enthusiastic trainers (such as yourself) goes a long way to assist in different aspects, provide feedback and bounce ideas off.

It sounds like you’re dedicated to finding a good approach. I wish you the best of luck in your search.

 Quote: cj barrett

One thing I really like and respect about this site is Mr. Frawley’s approach to the fact that everyone who owns a dog is a dog trainer.

Not only that, but that we are always training the dog. It's up to us what the dog is learning.

It's kinda funny when you think about it to perceive the only chunk of "learning" time to be during a class or a special session at home.

Sorta like thinking a toddler is static for 22 hours but springs into learning mode for a two-hour preschool.

I think this concept is the biggest turnaround for human/dog relationships. We humans are the ones who are being trained and educated to learn how to guide our domesticated dogs through contemporary society (rural, suburban, urban, wild, etc.). And we have to educate ourselves to get good at it. Blaming the dog is not going to work. The dogs have no choice about the situations they find themselves in. They get adopted out, it is human networks that make all the important decisions. The dogs really try to fit in as best they can with what they have available.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

One thing I really like and respect about this site is Mr. Frawley’s approach to the fact that everyone who owns a dog is a dog trainer.

I think the words “Obedience Classes” can be misleading. To me it says that dogs entering the class are somehow disobedient when in fact it’s generally the owner (trainer) that lacks the skills to guide the desired behavior. I’ve always felt “Dog Owner Training” was much more appropriate.

I’ve heard a couple times that “my dog” failed obedience class. This always makes me bite my tongue because who’s failing who here. Who didn’t fully understand what was being taught, follow through with the homework or seek out a different/better method more suited to their dog’s learning style?

I believe a good professional trainer is someone that obviously knows dogs but just as important, needs to be able to connect with the human in a mentoring relationship - not just someone with an ability to bark off orders. Someone that sparks inspiration and provides meaningful insight to new owners on how their dog learn.

Personally, as has been mentioned, I don’t think you can find any clearer, more up-to-date methods than you can in the wealth of resources that make up this site. In daily life, simply finding like-minded, enthusiastic trainers (such as yourself) goes a long way to assist in different aspects, provide feedback and bounce ideas off.

It sounds like you’re dedicated to finding a good approach. I wish you the best of luck in your search.

What a fantastic post CJ! WE are the ones limiting our pets.