I am curious in that there are quite a few people at my dog club telling me I should try the clicker training on the drop on recall. I confess I have never used this method as I personally find it inconvenient & think it may just be a method of training that is not used too long. I am curious in how many actually use this method & find it reliable.
I feel as if it is simply a variation of the "bribe method" of using food, and as such is useful for teaching a new lesson, but only works if the dog wants the treat MORE than he wants to do something else. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I use food to make the "learning stage" fun, and to encourage the "come" but then taper off and use praise as the "positive" and a verbal/physical correction for the "negative" once they KNOW the command. It is a matter of preference, I think. I have seen more people use the click-treat as a substitute for praise/interaction with the dog, which to me is stupid!! BUT, I know that is not the PROPER way that the clicker is supposed to be used, so it is the trainer, not the method, that is at fault in my mind! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Food or clicker should not be used istead of praise, but with it at the same time. The praise then becomes a reward between treats. The treat/ball can be used lesss frequently and praise substituted. If you are going to do competition it will keep the level of performance higher. It wouldn't be necessary if you are not going to do competition and don't need that level of performance you could get or maintain with treat/ball training and could be easily phazed out once the training is completed and the behaviors learned.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
This is not directed towards anyone in particular but as a result of many posts over the past few weeks. I am surprised on the amount of people who do not understand the basic principles of reward and praise. I now understand where some of the harsh comments on food and play came about a few weeks prior.
I confess to having been anti-clicker. I saw it as part of the never correct, never be a leader cult of the spoiled, out of control pet doggie crowd. I've also seen it used very stupidly, esp to treat agg, w/disastrous results.
However, I've also seen it used to teach obed when there are multiple steps that need to be linked together and I'm understanding better how it can work in working dog training, esp to teach the novice handler how to time the praise/reward.
The conflict for me has always been handing food and clickers to pet owners who already overfeed and over treat and literally do bribe their dogs rather than train them. Their timing isn't good to begin with. I have seen food bribery be used as s substitute for training many many times.
I'm much less clicker hostile now in the working dog training. I also agree that the food, toys or whatever don't last forever. Nobody is clicking/treating during trials.
I heard of it used in tracking where a newcommer has trouble praising at the right time. The TD can use it and the dog thinks it is comming from the handler.
Originally posted by valkyrie: ...I know that is not the PROPER way that the clicker is supposed to be used, so it is the trainer, not the method, that is at fault in my mind! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Please note, I did not say I thought clicker training was a bad idea, just that I have not seen many people using it properly! It is a tool, and STILL requires a good trainer with an excellent sense of timing! The method I prefer is very similar, except that you help the dog associate the "treat" with the praise, not the "click". But I have not found a good clicker trainer in this area to really get all the nuances of it down.
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