Quote: Julie Sloan

I am not a fan of vaccines, in general, after having read about them. I am not concerned about what is the best way to save money, but what is the best for the dog.No offense to your response Tracy. My dog had serious joint issues from puppy that we had fixed, plus allergies, so I don't feel like he is a good candidate for vaccinations in general. He does get Rabies.

No offense taken--and I certainly don't mean to imply that money is a primary concern in this issue at all. It isn't for me. For me, it's an issue of what is in the best health interest of the dog. Everything in life comes with risk. Vaccinations are remarkably safe as medical procedures go, but I acknowledge that they have risks. Having dogs exposed to disease is riskier. And your situation sounds risker than most, since you live near unvaccinated dogs. The risk-reward of vaccination against life-threatening disease is an easy one for me to make.

I think it's a mistake for people to confuse over-vaccination with any vaccination. There's a widespread idea in this country that vaccination against infectious disease is a bad thing--for people and animals. But that's not an idea that is supported by the science. Vaccines given in a responsible way (not in combined doses, and not given when antibodies already exist) are a miracle.

(I also feel just as strongly about what a bad idea over-vaccinating is. Giving unnecessary vaccines is a terrible idea and creates unnecessary medical risk. The idea of "yearly shots" is outdated by decades, and no responsible vet still does it.)

I'm also a believer in the idea that vaccines don't just protect the animal getting the shot. It offers protection for all the other individuals that come into contact with it. Like your neighbor that allows her dogs to contract a preventable infection...her irresponsibility puts your dog at risk.

I know you've asked about the seriousness of the disease, rather than our opinions about vaccination. I can't help with that. But it stands to reason that if you don't think your dog would handle the effect of vaccination, he would handle the full-blown infection with even less success.

The trouble with titers for Parvo and Distemper is that no one really knows what protective titer is. There hasn't been good research on this, and since no companies are likely to profit from it, unless they develop a cheap "in office" snap test (a great idea)
there isn't likely to BE money for this research any place soon. Last I checked only Kansas State was doing titers.
A healthy dog would likely survive parvovirus. Canine Distemper is horrendous but your dog has been vaccinated so it likely has titer. Lepto protection likely only lasts 6 mos and isn't very effective. Neither is Lyme.
I vaccinate my dogs with the puppy series, a booster at a year, then every 3 yrs. I do not give rabies and DHLP-PArvo in the same month.
If you take your dog to dog parks, visit Petco, go to training with young dogs, vaccines are good to have. If live in an urban area or areas with lots of stray dogs, uncared for, vaccines are good to have. If you have a housepet who potties on newspaper and never goes out, maybe you don't need vaccine.
IMO if you don't vaccinate and the dog suffers from a preventable disease it's your fault.
OTOH it may be that a person needs to see these diseases to believe in vaccine. My first dog,l961, from the ASPCA in NYC died of canine distemper. I will never own a dog not vaccinated for that ghastly condition.

Ok, I have spent the evening reviewing the info in the SHock to the System book, and also the AAHA 2011 guidleines, plus some other info I found here. It refreshed my memory a bit on reading I did back when Tanka was a year old. He is a little over 2 now.

He was vaccinated every three weeks with a combination shot, and without pulling shot record I don't remember up until what age, maybe 4 months?,with last shot when he was 6 months and 6 days, so with a fully mature system. According to just about everything I have read, he should be good on all counts for 3, 5, 7 years or even a lifetime of immunity to the core MLV vaccinated diseases. I think that is correct.

Here are my hangups on letting it go at that. 1)he had a mild long intestinal infection that persisted until a little over a year old, when I took the matter into my own hands, did what I thought was right, and finally got rid of it for good. SO was he immunosuppressed at the time of vaccinating?
2)the vet that i fired on the spot gave him the lepto shot along with the regular core shots at the 6 month mark, which his line had had severe life-threatening issues with the vaccination, and so she then gave him a benadryl shot along with the vacination. Did this have any effect on it at all?
3)since I did not know better at the time, and gave the combined shot, did he really get immunity to all the core diseases? Since he had them all every three weeks, did he get immunity to each of them at some point?

And then there is the argument over titers, that they are checking antibodies, and not memory cells, which the body will use to mount a fight against the disease.

I would titer test. You probably understand that a low titer does not necessarily mean low protection, but the test may be quite clear that he is protected.

JMO!

Have you seen this?
http://www.synbiotics.com/Products/CompanionAnimals/Canine/TiterCHEK-CDV-CPV-Parvo/96-0460-RoundTableDiscussion.pdf

You might want to scroll to page 9 first, but I think you will also want to read the whole thing.

Ok, Tanka had his parvo/distemper titers done today. Vet said back by Sat he hopes.

Such mixed info out there. The shock to the system book says that parvo in an adult dog is not life-treatening, vet said he has seen more than one confirmed parvo adult die. Said although he put down close to 200 dogs at the beginning of his career to distemper, he hasn't seen a case in 21 years.

He admits that once immune, especially to parvo, dogs many times have lifetime immunity, but he still gives his dogs annual shots because he doesn't want to lose one to a preventable disease. But continuing to vaccinate an immune dog doesn't make it more immune. But he doesn't think that they cause problems anyway, so he feels like he is doing no harm by continuing to vaccinate yearly.

So far I haven't found one vet who carries a single vaccine, like distemper, only combo shots. I actually called one who does titers before vaccinating, but then only has combo shots, so if the dog needs one thing, he gets all of them. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Well, first step done, now we wait to see how it comes back.

That's interesting on the distemper. Did he feel that that was because of the immunizations?

I know we have distemper here in our wild life, last year in the next county over several foxes tested positive for it.

I assume so Betty. We know that the vaccinations generally work, but that isn't always the whole story. I still think vaccinating for a disease he is already immune to is asking for a problem. I wouldn't feel like it should be ignored because it isn't prevalent anymore, but then he wasn't saying that.

YES!!!!! Tanka's titers came back good!!!

Betty, I never gave much thought to running into those diseases out in the wild, I don't know why. There is an overpopulation of coyotes around here. Right before dark, it sounds like feeding time at a dog kennel.

I have not seen canine distemper in 27 yrs in a dog with an owner.
Adult dogs die of parvovirus.
It is expensive to treat, lots of IV fluids. The diarrhea is so explosive that some owners request euthanasia because they couldn't stand the mess. That sounds absurd but a big dog who cannot control his bowels at all is tough if you have a job, children, perhaps no yard, or the dog is too sick to be outside.
Really glad your dog has titers that you are happy with. Now you don't have to think about it anymore!

I am going with the vet telling me over the phone he is good with the numbers that came back. I will get a copy, but for now I am going on that.

it seems like the same thing as with so many other things. You can get completely different info just by looking at different sources.