So only the Earthborn coincides with the increase in pica?

I was actually more interested in the reason behind the L.I. food with sweet potato in first place (ahead of meat), but you don't think that was new this summer, correct? (The bison formula is the same.)


And you know of no difference in what's happening on the patch of ground?

And there was no food reduction this summer? No reducing diet? No reduction in training food rewards?

The only change in food that coincides with the increase in pica is the Earthborn?


So have I read all this right? Nothing else you can think of that happened this summer?

"So only the Earthborn coincides with the increase in pica?

I was actually more interested in the reason behind the L.I. food with sweet potato in first place (ahead of meat), but you don't think that was new this summer, correct? (The bison formula is the same.)"

I had thought that the bison and sweet potato formula I was using previously had bison as the first ingredient and sweet potato second, but I can't be postive about that. So there may have been a formula change. I'm not crazy about sweet potatoes being the first ingredient. I guess that's one reason I've been supplementing the evening meal with a little extra protein, like fish or eggs.

"And you know of no difference in what's happening on the patch of ground?"

That patch of ground is no different than anyplace else in our yard, except for the fact we walk over that area on our way to and from the barn. But their preferred area is not the entire path to the barn, only about a third of it.

"And there was no food reduction this summer? No reducing diet? No reduction in training food rewards?"

No, in fact, they had lost a little weight after a few months on the home-cooked diet (my fault--miscalculated the proper quantities) and I felt they were both a little on the thin side, so early in the year, before all this grass-eating started, I had bumped up their food intake a little. Their weight has been stable since around spring.

"The only change in food that coincides with the increase in pica is the Earthborn?"

Yes.

"So have I read all this right? Nothing else you can think of that happened this summer?"

In giving this a lot of thought and really racking my brain to try to think of anything that might be remotely connected, I would only mention that we have had some very strange weather this year. Our spring was the wettest I can ever remember. We had standing water everywhere, including the dog yard. Then when the spring rains passed, the first half of the summer was so dry we were under drought-like conditions. The grass actually turned almost brown and stopped growing. Then about mid-summer, the rain returned and the grass freshened up again. Now here it is December and we have as much water standing around as we had in the spring. The lawn has definitely been affected by the weather this year, and I'm sure they weren't nearly as interested in it earlier in the summer when it was dry and brown.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

.... In giving this a lot of thought and really racking my brain to try to think of anything that might be remotely connected, I would only mention that we have had some very strange weather this year. Our spring was the wettest I can ever remember. We had standing water everywhere, including the dog yard. Then when the spring rains passed, the first half of the summer was so dry we were under drought-like conditions. The grass actually turned almost brown and stopped growing. Then about mid-summer, the rain returned and the grass freshened up again. Now here it is December and we have as much water standing around as we had in the spring. The lawn has definitely been affected by the weather this year, and I'm sure they weren't nearly as interested in it earlier in the summer when it was dry and brown.

I'd probably at least consider a food change. I don't think that the vet will give much weight to pica and/or coprophagia being food-related when the dog is on a balanced commercial diet (and unfortunately many will immediately assume that it IS diet-related if the diet is raw or home-cooked), especially if there is no symptom of a deficiency. And I think that from all I have read, dietary insufficiency (like iron deficiency) really is not high on the pica-causes list. But in this case, with two dogs on the same food exhibiting the same habit, I'd probably be less sanguine about dismissing the diet as a factor.

Also, the grubs and tender roots that might have been a big factor in spring -- aren't really now, in December.

The problem is that no matter what the trigger was/is, it's a solid habit now.

And I would not want the dogs snarfing up material that's in standing water. (Puddles and even soaked leaves are giardia heaven, for example.)

There are potentially serious problems with significant dirt-eating, too, from blockage to zinc-poisoning.

So in addition to considering a careful (so as not to cause diarrhea in the dog who has bowel-problems history) diet change, I'd be leashing the dogs for potty trips to interrupt the habit. Even if one is very quick about it (page one), he can't do it if he's walked to a different area.

I know I have pica articles in WDJ and in a couple of books, but I haven't had time to look them up yet (which is why this reply was delayed). I can look those up Sunday night/Monday night.

These are both adults, right? Is there any hair loss or dry or flaky skin?




I'm not a health professional.

I appreciate the insights, Connie. As much as I dread it, I think I am indeed going to have to try another food. I was just so relieved to find something that didn't give Logan mushy poop! But back to square one, I guess.

I agree with your observation that, whatever the initial trigger was, it's a solid habit now. This has actually got me hoping for a cold winter with lots of snow cover, something I've never before wished for.

They are definitely being watched like hawks anytime they're out. Like you said, I'm worried about the negative consequences of consuming too much dirt.

Most of the standing water is outside of their fenced yard. Just on the other side of the fence is an area that you would swear is a big pond right now. It's not; it's just a low spot in the horse pasture. In the spring and again this month, it has encroached a little into their yard, and a few other low spots in their yard have gotten very wet. That's one of the reasons I suspected giardia or some other "bug" for lack of a better term in the early spring when they both had repeated bouts of diarrhea. I never, ever let them drink from standing water but of course that's not the only way they could ingest it.

To answer your last question, both dogs are adults, three and a half and four and a half years old. Natasha's coat has always been good, but there was a time when Logan had hair loss and dry, scaly skin mostly confined to the underside of his neck and extending down toward his chest a little. That, and his chronic mushy poop is what prompted me to get that allergy testing done, as ill-advised as that was. Since that time, though, I have really come to believe that it was the prong collar that was causing that skin reaction on his neck.

If you have additional pica information you can refer me to, that would be great. I really appreciate the time you have taken to answer this, Connie. I know you are appreciated by a lot of people.