Good Morning~

I wondered if anyone has ever experienced a puppy too hungry for marker training?

I have noticed that, sometimes ,when I do a session with food, before he has his meal, he becomes so hungry, that it is almost a distraction.

I figured maybe the session was a bit long or the poor thing is starving. As soon as I feed him, all is fine.

He's very healthy, and the first really hearty eater I've ever had!

My dog has SUPER HIGH food drive, and I've often seen her get frantic. I do a couple of things to take advantage of this, and a few things to temper it. Your dog is still pretty young, so some of what I do may not apply to you. Also, as he is still developing, so his food drive could very well lessen as he gets older and builds other drives.

Number one, if I were you, I'd determine levels of reward value with the treats you are using. I use medium value treats for heeling exercises and other OB. I reserve the higher value treats for certain special scenarios.
Ex#1: When I adopted Sadie, I was working nights and Sadie was inside while I was gone, so I left food out and she ate when she wanted. When I was transferred to a regular day shift, I knew she would be outside while I was gone and I wanted her to eat before I left for work. The only way to get her to eat on command was to marker train it with a very high value treat. To this day, she gets a piece of chicken jerky if she "eats it all". At that point, she is zoned in and we'll do a quick OB exercise, and it is really sharp.
Ex#2: When I wanted to teach her obstacles, I was concerned about her confidence. I quickly learned that all I had to do was lure her with a high value treat, and she would blast over jumps, walls, etc.

Most trainers advise me not to feed before training. I had to figure out for myself that this does not apply to me. I feed her before we go to the club, and she is much more relaxed and focused. The only way I can get solid tracking is to track her on a full stomach. Otherwise, she pulls like a sled dog. MOD NOTE: Please see the important advice from David Winners followed by details from Anne Jones below.

Lastly, if his prey drive ever wanes (such as when he's going through adolescence), you can use food dynamically to maintain or increase it. Ed and Michael have some good free videos on that topic.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/09/2012 02:21 PM)
Edit reason: mod note

You can try a lower value treat or fed part of his meal to take the edge off his food drive to get him to focus a bit better.

Also keep training sessions very short. Pups have the attention span of a knat. Multiple very short sessions is far better then 1 or 2 longer ones. I always work with pups 5-6 times a day for a couple of minutes. I increase it a bit as the pup ages. But still keep it short up to maybe 5 minutes with multiple sessions.

Does the pup have toy or ball drive? It might be a bit lower in a pup then food drive.

Often it increases with age so you might need to go back to food later as a 1st choice.

Thanks for your replies. I know the sessions need to be short. VERY SHORT!! Sometimes when he does it right the 1st time, I move on or just reward and finish.

Yes, he has tug and ball drive, but at the moment, it sends him into high gear. We'll see. I will remember these suggestions as the weeks go by.

 Quote: Duane Hull

Most trainers advise me not to feed before training. I had to figure out for myself that this does not apply to me. I feed her before we go to the club, and she is much more relaxed and focused. The only way I can get solid tracking is to track her on a full stomach. Otherwise, she pulls like a sled dog.

Duane, this does apply to you. Maybe they didn't explain themselves, but there is a very serious medical reason not to train on a full stomach.



Important disclaimer!



If your dog has a full stomach and is running, jumping, doing bitework, you run a serious risk of GDV / torsion / bloat. Many working dogs die because of this. More Military Dogs die from bloat than IEDs. If you need to feed before training, make sure it is 2 hours prior, at a minimum.

If you have gotten away with this so far, you have been lucky. I suggest you do some serious research before you feed a meal right before hitting the training field.


http://www.michigananimalhospital.com/page/421552096

http://westernvet.com/services/sa/GDV.php

http://petsmd.com/Health/Dogs/Bloat

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1677&aid=402


I could post 100 more just like these.


Please, do not exercise your dog for 2 hours after a meal, especially doing jumps, agility, bitework, or prolonged running. You are just asking for trouble.

I wait 2 hours after feeding before any running etc. 3 hours after before doing any type of sleeve or suit work.

I also wait at lest 2 hours before feeding after heavy work.

All for the reason that you stated David. It is a very serious issue with GSDs or any other deep chested breed.

 Quote: Anne Jones

I wait 2 after feeding before any running etc. 3 hours after, before doing any type of sleeve or suit work.

I also wait at lest 2 hours before feeding after heavy work.

All for the reason that you stated David. It is a very serious issue with GSDs or any other deep chested breed.

I hope everyone heeds this and doesn't assume that "don't feed before training" is based solely or even mainly on food drive. IT'S NOT.

 Quote: David Winners

... Please, do not exercise your dog for 2 hours after a meal, especially doing jumps, agility, bitework, or prolonged running. You are just asking for trouble.

Like David, I could list a hundred authoritative sources about this. Some factors are constantly debated. This one is not.



http://www.theapca.com/content.php?page=caninebloat

The American Police Canine Association:

"A known cause of bloat is a dog eating a meal and then exercising"



http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

Bloat in Dogs:

"Causes:

Exercise before and especially after eating"

 Quote: Carol Blumlein

Good Morning~

I wondered if anyone has ever experienced a puppy too hungry for marker training?

I have noticed that, sometimes ,when I do a session with food, before he has his meal, he becomes so hungry, that it is almost a distraction.

I figured maybe the session was a bit long or the poor thing is starving. As soon as I feed him, all is fine.

He's very healthy, and the first really hearty eater I've ever had!

I've had dogs who were better with FST and marker sessions when it was almost meal time, and others with such high food drive that they would have that frantic response unless it took place two or three hours after meals instead of just before.

(Never, as said above, right after a meal ... just to be fully clear.)

"He's very healthy, and the first really hearty eater I've ever had!"


A great training gift ....