In my last thread I asked weather I should add the command to sit and hand touch yet. I was told that I had waited longer than I should. So I started adding the command. Marco picked up on the touch command instantly. No problem. I also thought he got the sit. However, I'm not so sure now. He seems to be picking up on the lure more than the command still. Sometimes he'll do it on the command, sometimes he won't. Sometimes he'll do it but it's slow. Also, he'll always do it from a down, but not always from standing. Another interesting thing. I'm working on down now and he's really starting to do it quickly like I want. But the sit is not quite as quick even with the lure.

If you are commanding sit, you should be beyond the luring phase. If you're luring and commanding, he may be anticipating the reward. Command him to sit, and don't produce the reward until he sits and you mark. When he realizes that he's not going to get marked until he sits, he'll straighten up.

Sit is usually the first thing you teach, along with recall. Stop working on other positions and concentrate on sit until you get that down, then proceed with one command at a time.

Are you sure your mark is solid and your timing is right?

I'm pretty confidant that my mark and timing are good. I'll stop with the down for now and focus on the sit more until it's right. The recall is something I want to work on soon. How should I go about starting that?

Call him to you. As soon as he looks at you and starts your way, mark. Start close with no distractions, then build on that. It's really easy, but you have to get him excited about coming to you.

This is another opportunity to build a good sit, but down the line a bit. When I call my dog to "come", she has to sit in front of me, but that's a little more advanced. Start with the recall for now. Once he will come reliably (and is excited for the reward), call him and mark when he starts toward you. AFTER he gets there and you reward, command a sit, then mark and reward the sit.

After he knows the recall command, you can do restrained recalls to build his desire to come.

Edited by Duane Hull (06/08/2012 07:15 PM)
Edit reason: sp

O.K. so let me ask this. When I work with him. He always sits when he knows I have the treats. When he does the touch, he immediately sits after I mark and before I can get him the reward. Then he just sits there. So if I get him to sit, mark, reward. How do I get him back up or whatever to get him to do it again? That's basically why I started doing the down and touch because that was a way to get him out of the sit to do it again.

Well, it definitely sounds like he knows the sit, so as I said, the lure is pbly now a distraction.
Move away a few feet and when he comes to you, give him "sit" again. If he remains in the sit without following, add the "come".
It also sounds like he may be ready for more positions. Just make sure you get that sit on command. Try it without the luring; I think the luring may be a distraction, so don't produce the reward until you mark it. He'll figure out that he has to sit to get his treat.

How often are you using the luring? It could very well have become a bribe and that can be a pia to get rid of.

I think I'm luring too much. I'll try what Duane suggested.

Kory;
In summary, some things to think about going forward...

Remember that luring is for teaching. Once the dog understands the behavior, put it on command, then remove the lure and reward for compliance. At that point, the lure becomes a distraction, even for my four-year-old trained dog. You will use luring for each new behavior that involves a position, but you can overdo it and create a dog that is ignoring commands and just "chasing" a treat.

Don't name it til you love it, but don't wait too long. You want a dog that is eager to learn because there's something in it for him. I don't know your dog, but most of the dogs that I've trained, once they understand marker training, picked up on new simple behaviors in two or three ssubstantial sessions. After that, multiple short sessions reviewing everything to reinforce and sharpen. That doesn't mean perfect behaviors in three sessions. Build the foundation, then reinforce often.

Watch all of the free Michael Ellis videos you can, and purchase marker training DVDs, but think about the logical order for a puppy. You can watch them out-of-sequence, but keep your training in sequence. Make an outline and keep a log, if it helps.

Most importantly, you may make mistakes early on, but they can be fixed. It becomes harder to retrain if you keep pushing forward with bad methodology.

You are on the right path. Good luck.