In another thread on this Forum David Frost wrote: "Now Lou, please explain how to teach the woman that wore the electronic collar during the demonstration that was so eloquently put to us."

This query originated from a discussion on an email list that we're both on where a woman, who abhors aversives as used in any fashion, wrote about how she had recently used a human in an Ecollar experiment. The tool was used at a "not painful" setting as described by the volunteer.

After just a few attempts at "offering behaviors" the volunteer stopped completely. The test subject explained that she had stopped because every time she offered a behavior it was wrong. The author said that the Ecollar had done it's job, it had stopped all behavior. The author then went on to explain that in a shaping session she never wants the dog to stop offering behaviors.

Of course what the author failed to realize is that an Ecollar training session is NOT a shaping session. You don't "wait for the dog to offer behaviors." The dog is guided into the proper behavior using any of a number of tools including treats, a leash, the trainer's hands or a combination of these.

If you decide to use an Ecollar please don't pretend that it's a clicker and wait for the dog to offer behaviors. That's not how the tool works and trying to use it in that fashion will just show how little you understand the tool and dog training in general.

I'm always amused when people who don't like the tool devise experiments to show that it doesn't work. Invariably all they expose is their own ignorance. At a seminar in Florida a few years ago I used an Ecollar, gentle guidance and praise to train a human to recall in three minutes. At another seminar I got the recall in just a short a time in the face of a $100 bill used for a distraction.

i agree with you on everything

just wanted to say that you would have to use a pretty high setting to get to avoid a 100 dollar bill <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The fact is that the Ecollar stayed at the same, low setting throughout the "training." At first I maintained pressure on the leash to prevent the person from going towards the $100 bill, as I applied stim at the same time. Then, when the person stopped trying to move towards the money, I released both pressures, from the leash and the Ecollar at the same time.

When the person tried to move towards the money I reapplied the pressure from both. After a while I only applied pressure from the Ecollar. In a few more moments no pressure was required from either the leash or the Ecollar.

The person had learned how to make the discomfort stop. I was expecting a lunge for the money but it never came.

man he behaved better than i would

that 100 would have come in handy

am saving up for my e collar right now plan on using your techniques to e train my pup.

apreiciate the info