Keith, I don't know why you stopped training this exercise after only one time of picking up the dumbell incorrectly. If it were me, I would have immeditaely corrected my dog, maybe with the word "phooie" or "no" or whatever you use. I would then calmy walk over, take the dumbell from him and have him hold it properly, then praise him. I like what Bernhard Flinks says in his seminars which is you have to tell your dog what you like, and what you don't like. I would never end my session with my dog offering an incorrect behavior. At the very least make him hold it properly then end the session. You have to set your dog up for success when you end the session. By the way I'm happy your dog is easy to train. I thought mine was too, unitl I realized that without teaching the forced retrieve he would not be reliable with this exercise. JMO

You have to be a skilled trainer with a methodical and consistant (time consuming!!) plan to train a motivational retrieve. That's why most people go to a forced retrieve, not because it has anything to do with the temperament of the dog. In fact it is easier to train a dog that is ball crazy to do so, because you have that high level of motivation to work with.


That's not that I'm saying you can't, or shouldn't, put some Umph and reliability on the motivational retrieve with a little compulsion down the road. . . .


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

If you are using force, and the dog understands to hold the dumbell by the middle to switch off the stim, then keep on the stim until he picks it up right. Like John said, never end on a wrong note, help your dog to do the right thing, even if you have to take a couple of steps back. Ensure the training session ends right, then go away and think about it.

I have used a clicker retrieve all the way to SchH3. I have not used any force with this particular dog. I wouldn't call it motivational as I would classify that as a play retrieve using the dogs prey and social drives. My click retrieve starts as a food exercise, I did add play and drive to it later. The final result tends to lose us a couple of points for speed, but I think that is mostly due to the drive of the dog. The next dog I trained this way did not have the speed problem, but she does everything fast. The process is similar to Jenn's although not quite the same. I have a description including video here:
Click Retrieve I started with Shirley Chong's method, and changed it to focus a lot more on the hold.

Like VanCamp says, you need good timing and a consistent routine, you might want to try training something else first with a clicker to practise timing. Fortunately if your timing is off, you just train the wrong thing which is frustrating for you but doesn't stop your dog wanting to learn.

I also have encountered a dog who would not work for the clicker and food, even when put back in her crate for messing about, but she was less than willing in everything and hard to motivate (beautiful grip though!). So I know there is no method that is perfect.

Learn all the methods and then choose the right one for your dog based on his drives and hardness.

ok, let me rephrase myself. I didn't just stop after he picked it up one time wrong, I did actually go back and have him hold it correctly, and praised him for it. I just knew not to do it too many times as I do not want to start a bad behavior immediately on the throw out of the dumbbell. This is my very first dog to work towards a VPG I with and I am still very much in the learning phase and yes, I am very glad also that he is easy to train and very forgiving. I make mistakes and we still keep right on going! He is a great little dog.

Who can ask for more? Good luck with him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />