Copied from another thread;

 Quote: Duane Hull

"We tried to polish Sadie's stand, but she still thinks a half-step fwd is ok. I try my IB, but then she'll sit instead of holding it... I try waiting for her to stand, then an "uh uh" on the step forward, but then she gets confused and thinks she's wrong for standing, so she refuses the next stand command. I'm afraid that the sloppy luring when I taught it has totally messed her up, and my attempts to correct it are just dumbfounding her.
Any ideas on how to correct this would be appreciated. I've tried a barrier, but she'll sidestep instead of coming fwd. I've tried tying her, and she does fine, but as soon as I remove the restraint, the step reappears."

Another note:

We've done hundreds of reps. She knows what I'm asking, as she will stand on the first command when I'm grooming her. It's during training sessions that she seems confused. I've also worked on generalizing it, so I don't think it's a case of being site specific.

Duane, IMO if you feel she's confused with the stand, it might be time to rename the command and retrain it?

Tuckers heel was horrible!! I had totally screwed it up and he just got more confused the more I tried to fix it.

So I started again...changed heel to "side" and reworked him.

You said you've done hundreds of reps...hundreds of reps of "correct" standing...or hundreds of reps of trying to get a good stand? I am confused by that part.

self-deleted duplicate post.

I started out training it and she got it quickly, but i was luring it poorly and allowed small steps. I was marking and rewarding the stand, but allowing small steps. I should have stopped there and made corrections, but instead I'd bridge it with a "stand still", and she never learned to just stand and stay.
I eventually taught her that I wanted her to stay when she stood, but because of the sloppy foundation, she instinctively tries to step toward me. Now it seems my efforts to perfect it are confusing the issue for her, during training. When I need her to stand for grooming, she pops up and is still.

My need is for her to stop in her tracks if we continue to advanced OB in IPO, so I'm trying to eliminate any chance for creeping.

I've never taught (or needed) a stand in 35+ years, and didn't know how to train it. I started doing it by luring away from her, before I saw an ME video that said to push the reward toward the dog, forcing her to stand. If I try that type of luring now, she goes into a "back".

When I train my next puppy, I will know the correct luring, but I need to fix something that I laid a poor foundation for now.

I tried reteaching it with no command, but I guess I don't know the proper shaping. I ceased trying to reteach it, as I didn't want to add more confusion. I've been trying to correct the learned behavior through

 Quote:

I saw an ME video that said to push the reward toward the dog, forcing her to stand. If I try that type of luring now, she goes into a "back".

Can you then back away from her without her coming forward? Try feeding her a few rewards before you leave her. You can put her on something elevated and have her stand at the front edge so she can't come forward. Feed her a lot in the correct position.

When you start it from heel position, don't be in too big a hurry to go away from her. Shuffle your feet or walk in place and keep feeding her in that position. When you do leave her, don't go far, keep coming back and feeding her in that spot.

Thanks, Steve!

I make her wait on the tailgate of the truck while I clip her leash, before she's allowed to exit the truck. That would be the perfect place to practice changing position.

Yes, I can sack away up to at least 10 feet now. It's just that small step toward me when I give the command from a distance.

Once she has a better understanding of the behavior, I anticipate teaching it at heel will be similar to the sit and down in motion, a little bit at a time, pretty much like you describe.

 Quote:

Yes, I can back away up to at least 10 feet now. It's just that small step toward me when I give the command from a distance.

You don't give it from a distance in Schutzhund, theres no change of positions, so why bother? I'd train it for the way you're going to trial. I think that would be the best way to re-do something you missed the first time.

I pretty much agree. And I see your point about making it a priority to get the trial behavior down.

I train quite a few behaviors that aren't necessary for trialing. With this dog, she has a huge appetite for training, so the more we work on together, the easier she is to manage. Keeps her busy and sharp. As long as she loves it so much, I plan to keep challenging her. But I do expect her, at some point, to understand it and get it right.

I had this idea. How about using what I call a "mark". My husband has made me an 8 x 8 wood square. I have used it to teach the pivot and heel positions. I have used it to help Bindi know not to move from it. I have her sit with her front feet on the mark. Then say stand. I do this for awhile and stay near her. Then teach her the hand cue for awhile all the time reinforcing her correct position with treats. Then I use a pot holder for her to stand on. THen depending on how she does, remove the pot holder and I placed a 3x5 card. Her feet can't fit on it, but one does. Then I remove the post card. IT has helped her. She still needs work, but I thought I would just share this with you.
My girl Bindi is like your dog, loves to learn wants to be busy. I too train her in many behaviors that she will probably not need in Rally O. The other day I taught her the chin command. when I say chin, she puts her chin in my hand. She likes it! I am presently teaching her to scratch the ground. Once she gets it, her cue with be "wipe your feet".
sharon and her pups Bindi, Cody, Terra

I do the same thing with a touch pad. It has helped, but she will sometimes step off of the pad. I say "uh uh", and she'll find the pad again, but it's still not a clean stand.