Quote: Connie Sutherland

Andrew, I recall your posts (with pics) about taking multiple Neos on the bus with no bad outcome because of your pack-control. I remember LB board members who were aghast at this irresponsibility (taking multiple giant-breed dogs in public with only one handler) and your responses claiming great control, plus a no-incident history.

I'm confused about where this incident fits in .... where you have two dogs who fought to the point of "substantial injuries," and then you took them on PUBLIC TRANSPORT, suffering from fight-related injuries, where they "engaged with others."

Lets not make this about your egoe and please read all of my post,to quote from my post "in the early days of ownership when ,due to my initial lack of knowledge and experience of owning this breed

I will not post videos of all my dogs together as I respect that I was not asked to but if you care to look at the last video I posted in the thread " my pack and their visitors" you will see that tho I was holding all 4 in one hand and filming with the other and walking backwards I had full control of my dogs when an off leash dog initiated an attack on my dogs.In the early days of ownership I did not have this control or the knowledge of "conditioning" and building the trust my dogs have in me
May be UK english does not translate well to US english or maybe you simply misunderstand or did not read the whole post

In the picture of the two dogs laying down there "appears to be" a long scar on the head of the closest dog.
Is this a part of your controlled dogs?
I think you'll do you own thing in spite of many, many posts originally offering you help.
All that loose skin is developed by SHOW breeders trying to enhance what may have been original to the breed. It's no different then breeding for flatter faces in Bull dogs or heavier coats in Chows, Spaniels, Setters, etc.
As they are today the Neo is nothing more then a big, lumbering, slobbering, and in IMHO, useless for anything other then to feed someone's Walter Mitty insecurities.

 Quote: Bob Scott

In the picture of the two dogs laying down there "appears to be" a long scar on the head of the closest dog.
Is this a part of your controlled dogs?
I think you'll do you own thing in spite of many, many posts originally offering you help.
All that loose skin is developed by SHOW breeders trying to enhance what may have been original to the breed. It's no different then breeding for flatter faces in Bull dogs or heavier coats in Chows, Spaniels, Setters, etc.
As they are today the Neo is nothing more then a big, lumbering, slobbering, and in IMHO, useless for anything other then to feed someone's Walter Mitty insecurities.

You lot can be so funny .The skin you are really referring to if you actually knew about this breed is the skin on the face and legs the skin on the body has always been part of the breed as I have said they are a fighting breed with historic attachment to ancient molussus of roman times when they were used to fight other dogs and animals and tho not actually a 2000 year breed a neo is still a molusses and tho fashion has led breeders to over exegerate the skin it is most definately a part of the breed make up and tho all my dogs are lean an fit for purpose as you have seen them running around fields in ways you may not agree with but certainly not the lazy dogs you describe .
In regards to Connie's post I suppose my real point is what relevance to this thread or my post that he was replying did it have other than a continued state of "one up manship" almost to the point that some might think he takes things too personally.I also note the editing of an early post where a video is removed stating this post is not about down and stay when the video clearly had relevance to the ACTUAL thread tug play etc .I do not doubt his extensive knowledge of dogs and their training ,i do question the fair use of moderator powers

"You lot" is right. Remember how many people asked on the "visitors" thread that the thread be ended? Nothing about "mod powers," but everything about the entire reading membership of that thread.

Andrew, you posted pictures of taking many dogs on public transport and said over and over that this was fine because of your great control.

Now you post about taking two dogs together who were suffering from dogfight injuries on a public bus where they "engaged with others" and worsened their own injuries.

If it was early in your experience, then why didn't you learn something from it?

This never came up in all those posts you made about how safe your dogs were in public, even though they were showed harassing a horse ("the horse shouldn't have been there"), chasing a couple of kids, and more. You posted a video of little kids hanging over the fence of your home with their arms dangling down inside, and a strange dog actually inside your yard. You had "no idea" how the strange dog got in. Yet your property is "secured and fenced."

Every time you post the mods receive PMs about it. (Again, you saw evidence of the wide range of disgusted members who wanted that "visitors" thread ended.)

Control, safety, and obedience take precedence overall the stuff you THINK you're posting about. You think it's just you, when the fact is that you are by far the worst and most persistent offender against public responsibility and safe control of a pack we've seen post over and over here.

Please limit your posts to training your individual dogs, as requested twice before.


This thread is closing because these last posts are so far off topic. This is largely my fault, and I'm glad the thread was over anyway.

Milanka knows that she is very welcome to open a new thread if she wants to.

"As they are today the Neo is nothing more then a big, lumbering, slobbering, and in IMHO, useless for anything other then to feed someone's Walter Mitty insecurities."

Infact Bob I would think part a moderators job would be to deal with posters that make the sort of comments that you make in your post which are personally insulting and factually incorrect in respect of my dogs.However we know this won't happen and by not doing the forum which is meant for daebating,informative and constructive criticsm amongst people with similar OR different views without this sort of thing.Unfortunately most will not contradict Conne's or your attitudes for fear they will receive the same sort of non relevant insulting attitude.We dont have to agree with eachother all the time but I would expect some level of civility.

You are correct that such breed comments are not appropriate. I suspect that Bob, like many others here, is tired of your shut-off switch that enables you to completely ignore all the positive and constructive criticism you have received in dozens upon dozens of posts. Nevertheless, you are right that such comments are not OK.


You are not a good ambassador, Andrew. You do your breed choice harm with almost every thread you are in.

Andrew, you posted pictures of taking many dogs on public transport and said over and over that this was fine because of your great control.

Now you post about taking two dogs together who were suffering from dogfight injuries on a public bus where they "engaged with others" and worsened their own injuries.

If it was early in your experience, then why didn't you learn something from it?

This never came up in all those posts you made about how safe your dogs were in public, even though they were showed harassing a horse ("the horse shouldn't have been there"), chasing a couple of kids, and more. You posted a video of little kids hanging over the fence of your home with their arms dangling down inside, and a strange dog actually inside your yard. You had "no idea" how the strange dog got in. Yet your property is "secured and fenced."

Sadly, this is what stands out.