I've started watching Michael Ellis's tug video and I now realize I've been making a lot of mistakes while playing tug with my puppy and I'm interested in correcting them, but not sure if now is the right time to start and was hoping for some advice.

The rundown:
Sam is 4 months old and actively teething, so I'm not sure if now is the right time to address the following issues, or if I should hold off a few months until he's finished teething. If I do hold off, should I limit tug play and play other games and work on obedience with food in the meantime?

The problems:

I've let him "win" at tug when we play and carry the tug off and then play chase with him. On the bright side, he LOVES to play tug and I keep the tug after a playing session so the moment he sees the tug come out, he's excited and eager. On the downside, I've created a lot of possession in him and the moment I let go of the tug, instead of pushing it back to me, he now thinks it's time to play chase and will run off with it and dodge me. I want to use the tug as a training tool, so I know I need to teach him "out" and to bring it back to me.

My Questions:

1. Is now the best time to work on this given that he's teething? Should I just hold off on it all until after that and limit how much tug I play at all?

2. If I do start to work on this, I was thinking about teaching "out" first and not let him have the tug to run off with it for now. However, I'd been warned earlier not to teach out too soon. Is now a good time for this, given the teething?

3. I was thinking that once we have "out" down, then I could work with him on a long line and start to try to give him the tug, but not let him get far before I try to re-engage him and get him to bring it to me, as Michael shows in his video. If he runs off with it, should I reel him in, do an out, and then reward with a bite?

Thank you in advance for your time and advice!

i'd hold off for now , and switch to behaviours using food as the lure / reward .

i played with henry in an ex-pen with a very soft item when i was teaching the out at this stage . i sat on the floor and would do short little tosses followed by a gentle tug and then an " out " . because i was in a confined space he would inevitably wind up bringing it back to me .

when he is finished teething , then yes , have him on a line . do not ever start chasing him around . do not give him the opportunity to run off with it . the moment he gets to the item , you should be moving backwards , maybe giving a little pop on the line to get him moving towards you .

at first though , you should be play tugging with him , moving backwards , release the tug to him but keep moving backwards encouraging him to re-engage with you . if he is getting the idea , stop suddenly , hold the tug motionless , ask for an out . immediately present the item for him to bite , and move away for him to bring it towards you . only when he is doing that reliably should you be tossing the item . start very short , less than a meter , and when he shows that he will bring it in to you ( you moving away ) , you can increase the distance thrown .

it can be awkward , managing the line , the dog and the tug toy , but you have to keep control of all those things so that he gets the idea that the best thing is playing with you , not him creating his own game .

don't worry about this time " off " from playing tug . he has shown that he has the drive and desire to play the game , and as mike says , any perceived gains form playing during this time could be offset by either a bad experience due to teething pain or a handler " forcing " the issue when the dog doesn't really want to play .

there are better more productive things to be doing during this time .

That sounds good. He is also still pretty food motivated, although seems to be preferring the tug more over time. I think I'll focus more on engagement during this time and also play some games with him like searching for treats in the backyard, which he loves.

Any idea how I will know he's done teething or that it's close enough that it's a good idea to go back to the tug?

I've never felt the out taught with markers could be taught to early. It becomes a part of the game you play with the dog.
Playing while teething is something that can be different with each dog.
Teach the out using markers and back chaining with something not so valuable to the dog. All your looking for in this is a calm hold and a clean out.
It may be a couple of months till the teething is finished. Just keep checking.

 Quote: Bob Scott

I've never felt the out taught with markers could be taught to early. It becomes a part of the game you play with the dog.
Playing while teething is something that can be different with each dog.
Teach the out using markers and back chaining with something not so valuable to the dog. All your looking for in this is a calm hold and a clean out.
It may be a couple of months till the teething is finished. Just keep checking.

Sounds like TD. He was harping on that just last night...teach the out from the beginning, using another bite as a reward for the out.

I broke my dog from the keep-away mode using the ME method that Ian described, basically convincing the dog that the best way to keep the game going is to bring the tug back to me. However, as I've learned decoy work, I've placed a higher value on nurturing that possessiveness ("defense of prey"), and I have begun to allow a little possessiveness, even teasing her as if I'm going to take it away. Bernhard Flinks uses the technique of taking the dog into his arms during grip work, and teaches the out after the dog has already shown some development within and understanding of the game.

The "taking the dog into your arms" can be a lot of pressure on some dogs.

Yes, it is definitely something that is developed gradually from the beginning. For a new trainer, I definitely wouldn't recommend that you try it without the proper instruction. You certainly would need a good read on your dog to know what his threshholds for personal pressure are.

For now, I'm keeping the tug to a minimum and working on engagement and games with treats. I did find one fun game I can keep playing with a tug in one of my ScH books, though...using 2 tugs to help reduce possessiveness. You show the dog one tug, waving it, making it desirable, then you toss it. The dog picks up the tug and you show the second tug, waving it now and making the dog want to play with it. When the dog drops the first tug, you toss the second. The dog learns tossing one tug means he will get another. It is supposed to eventually help teaching the out as well as with retrieves and it sounds like a safe and fun game to play with a teething pup as well as a good way to exercise him.