Can a dog be trained in both SAR and SchH and be successful at both? Is there any type of training techniques in both disciplines that will contradict one another?

Thanks,

Christian

Depends on what you mean by "successful" in both. I know dogs (well) that are certified SAR dogs who also have SchH titles, but both are demanding pursuits. If one has to slide I will let you guess which one it is.

SchH is a sport. If you want top sport, get a dog for THAT. If you want to do SAR and dabble in SchH the sport always has to take the back seat. Lives are way more important than points.

That's just my opinion.

Heck of a handler to do both too! Very time consuming on both sides.

Christian,The difference between Search and Rescue and the sport of schutzhund..holds many layers.Those with the sport use it to evaluate..the true german shepherd..and go forward into other sects such as protection/SAR/Tracking etc.The majority choose to go for the sport..and will not step outside competing.But there are those who still realize that the sport is a test.SAR has many layers..of the type of search...Tracking as well.I guess my question to you are..do you have the finances to do both..and the dog? But bottom line..If you want sport and SAR..I would predominantly teach Sar..and protection in the real world.

There was a thread on this awhile back you might want to check out.

http://leerburg.server294.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=107;t=000066

Christian, I was the one who brought up SAR and Schutzhund. Read the post that Michele pointed out. One thing to think about is what Deanna commented on. They are BOTH very time consuming. Before you try it, realize that I am retired and have the time needed. I'd rather spend time with my dogs than get free tickets to the World Series and the Super Bowl. Also, unless you are a complete dog freak (I am), It could easily get to be a job instead of fun. The dogs temperment can be a big obstical. I spent a lot of time looking for my SAR dog. His drive and temperment is fantastic. I doubt he'd ever be a serious protection dog but if his aggression or defence developes to a point of concern, I'll have to make a decision on which path to follow. It all boils down to having the right dog, knowing your own limitations, and the right trainer.

Sport can be a great basis for S&R. If you are the owner of a young dog and want to develope the dog it can often be a great benefit to out to the schh club and train. Building the dogs drive is the specialty of spor tdog enthusiasts and you can learn imense amounts about the foundations of drive development. If you have a half way competent training director let them know your ultimate goals. Foundations should be shifted towards prey and play development and tracking should avoid force.
I bit of guidance here though.
Many S&R organizations have so little knowledge of schutzhund, or assume to have knowledge about it that is false that you might find yourself prejudiced against in the S&R "club". Since there are few profesionals involved in S&R, and much politics you might find yourself on the outs with them because you have a "biting" dog.
It is pure ignorance of the sport of schutzhund but it seems pervasive in many circles. It is too bad as the schutzhund foundations are far better than what is usually brought out by the weekend S&R enthusiast with a bandana aroudn its neck and zip for drive deleopment and a handler with a clicker and a bag of treats thinking that will solve the lack of work ethic their pet has.
So, be sure you know your SchH club and your S&R group well.

Well said Kevin. Thank you!

Thanks for the info everyone. Looks like I'll pursue only one. I'm active with our local Fire Department as an EMT, and thought "why not put the dog to use and benefit the community" and train in SAR. However, I'm really interested in SchH. Because I've never raised a working dog, it will be a challenge to train in one discipline, let alone both.

Is there a difference in picking a puppy for SAR or SchH? Or, as long as I get a quality puppy from good working bloodline, can I decide as the puppy gets a bit older, and decide based on how the puppy develops? I'm currently looking at a couple of breeders, Leerburg being the front-runner.

Finally, in your collective opinions, for a newbie who is not afraid to spend the time, energy and money.. which do you think I could end up more proficient in: SAR or SchH? (I know...it depends on many things...but in general...)

Christian

Kevin said it quite well. There are more good Schutzhund clubs than there are good SAR teams. MOST of the SAR teams are exactly what he described. My description would be that MOST are made up of a bunch of frustrated do gooders that want their baby to do something useful for the world . Kinda harsh, but that's what I mostly see at SAR seminars. The selection for the pups is quite similar other than a Schutzhund dog can get away with a little bit more natural agression. My dog has no agression issues at this point. With his high drive and clear head, I expect him to do well. The difference is, at the national level, it takes more of a serious dog to get the points. Well......it should anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As far as waiting for the pup to get older, The earlier you start either training, the better off you'll do.