Brian, if possible it would help if we saw a video of you doing just drive building with the tug.
Sounds like your catching on. It sounds like the outs are clear and he's solid. You will still randomly reward the out with a re bite. ALL rewards will eventually become random or he'll become to dependent on them if he gets them all the time.
Going right into obedience after an out is simply chaining exercises together before the mark and reward comes. This eventually leads to doing a whole routine before you mark and reward. This may be a 4 min routine in AKC obedience or a 10-20 min routine in Schutzhund. Either way the mark and reward will always be used to re enforce all behaviors.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Brian, if possible it would help if we saw a video of you doing just drive building with the tug.
Sounds like your catching on. It sounds like the outs are clear and he's solid. You will still randomly reward the out with a re bite. ALL rewards will eventually become random or he'll become to dependent on them if he gets them all the time.
Going right into obedience after an out is simply chaining exercises together before the mark and reward comes. This eventually leads to doing a whole routine before you mark and reward. This may be a 4 min routine in AKC obedience or a 10-20 min routine in Schutzhund. Either way the mark and reward will always be used to re enforce all behaviors.

There we go! Now that I think is what made the most sense to me.

I have been doing exactly that. I would "out" and mark with a re bite sometimes or "ouot" then use my bridge "good" then ask for OB and mark "yes" for a re bite. Its funny because he is getting really tuned up on the tug and starts whining because he wants more play. I noticed when he is in this mode he is sharp and fast with his OB. Still getting lazy hardly any grip on tug outside the home. I have to keep working on that part and I hope it gets dialed in soon. I think he is still in part of that puppy fear phase on our walks. He used to dig in and protest to even walk and now will walk just fine so I have to be patient here. I think the tug is pushing my luck a bit much at this time when out walking.

Now for the part of bringing the tug back I am not sure I understood Connies "2 ball" method but I took a guess at it. What I did is had 2 tugs in the yard and when I slipped one I grabbed the other and just tried to be more interesting. It worked but I really had to be animated. I figure this would cross over to a few things like him bringing it back and also in protection not becoming equipment obsessed. I also took him in the dog run where he couldnt run away and just kept marking "yes" for letting me grab it and engage in tug again. He didnt exactly bring it to me but he didnt try to keep it away either which is a start.

I will make a point of getting that video asap. Its dark so early now I dont have a lot of time after work to get it in.

As to bringing it back to you. That's where backk chaining is so valuable.
I work puppies and young dogs inside the house in a hall and start with back chaining the hold and out. From there I do very short throws. Toss it to far and your out of what I call the dog's area of influence. In other words, the dog may be far enough away to be easily distracted thus the hall. With a very young pup this may only be 3-4 ft.
You probably want to keep a leash on a dog when back chaining the take and hold. Not for correction purposes but to keep the dog in "YOUR" area of influence.
Get your outs and bridges solid and consistent before you start any other behaviors and you'll see how much easier they go.

I'm with Bob completely on back-chaining the retrieve. I mentioned two-ball in passing because I know many use it, but back-chaining (starting with the last step in the "chain" of steps in the retrieve) has been my preference too, ever since I learned it.

Thank you Brian for making this thread. It's full of great info. I'm having trouble with my dog bringing back the toy to me. If I toss a ball a short distance he brings it back but most times stops a foot or two short of me and lays down to start chewing the ball. Is this because he is a teething puppy or am I doing something wrong? When I do get my hands on the ball he outs well and I mark it with a yes and then toss the ball for him right away.

Just found this awesome video that Ram made so I will be giving it a try http://youtu.be/oiYv-jq70tw

Edited by Andrew Jenkins (01/22/2014 01:20 PM)
Edit reason: Found a helpful video

Andrew;
Just a shot, IMO, the pup is stopping short and chewing the ball because it's self-rewarding. Having the ball is more gratifying than the reward he gets for bringing it. If you just chase him down to get the ball, he'll pbly start stopping farther and farther away. You can try upping the reward value or back-chaining, or both. Back-chaining the retrieve with a high-value reward should reinforce it.

Be patient and work through it gradually. The worst thing you can do is to have success a few times and then think you're ready for the full retrieve again. Add distance gradually and slowly.

"Add distance gradually and slowly."


Billboard post!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

"Add distance gradually and slowly."


Billboard post!

Add time and distraction to distance then never add any two of them together.
If your adding distance then go back a bit with time and distraction.
If you add time then go back a bit on distance and distraction.
If you add distraction then go back a bit on time and distance.