Ok, I know it's pretty obvious a chicken back is bone and boneless cuts are meat. But when you are figuring ratios, where do bone in cuts like a thigh, leg quarter, etc etc fit in? If I feed a leg quarter, is that a balanced cut, or would you add more bone or more meat? It seems balanced to me in terms of building the frankenchicken but....

Two: He has eaten small frequent meals most of his life, now we would like to feed twice a day. Aiming at 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 lbs per day. If I try to feed him more than half a pound-ish for breakfast, he throws it up. At dinner he can eat more than a pound. Is there some logic in here that I am missing? Right now I am feeding him about 4 times a day, small meals. Just to get it all in him.

Three: What do you do if they throw up? Do you just wait a bit and then get out more food and try again?

Four: Is it logical to be a little more worried about bacteria in their mouth after they eat? I've never been one to worry much over dog slobber on my hands. Now I'm thinking more about it. Like, He eats then we're playing with a toy, or I hand feed him something I am eating and get slobber on my fingers while I am eating.

Five: Do you wash bowls after every meal? Every day?

Thanks!

How about if I break it down a bit to get it started (because some will know one response, and so on) ....

"I know it's pretty obvious a chicken back is bone and boneless cuts are meat. "

Chicken backs aren't just bone. They are a less-meaty RMB (RMB means the raw meaty bones that contain the bones the dog can digest, as opposed to "recreational bones), and they're addressed below in this link (and BTW, they are one of my favorite RMBs):

I think this might answer #1 (and please ask away if it doesn't):

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32656&page=1#366438
A third to a half of the diet should be RMBs. "A third to a half may sound a little vague, but here is how you can further define that: If your RMBs are bonier (like back and necks), make them a third of the diet. If they are less bony and more meaty, like chicken quarters or thighs, make them half of the diet. (Or if you alternate between or combine the meatier RMBs with the bonier ones, you can also alternate between a third and a half of the diet as RMBs.)"


#2 ... How old is he? How much does he weigh?


#3 ... Vomiting, as in partially digested food, so the vomitus smells acrid and looks partly digested? Or regurgitating, so it's very soon after eating and the material thrown up is pretty much what went in?




Now #4, QUOTE: "Is it logical to be a little more worried about bacteria in their mouth after they eat? I've never been one to worry much over dog slobber on my hands. Now I'm thinking more about it. Like, He eats then we're playing with a toy, or I hand feed him something I am eating and get slobber on my fingers while I am eating." (UNANSWERED)

and #5 .... Well, I don't. But do you have toddlers around, or any human with a compromised immune system? Or a dogsitter who might handle the bowl and then eat fruit out of that same hand? (I think this is probably a very individual thing; I'm interested in the replies!)

PS

Just to make sure you know what chicken backs are .... you're not mixing them up with chicken frames, are you? Because backs are definitely not just bones. They're a good RMB with cartilage-y bones, easily digested. Good beginner RMB and a fine RMB to base any raw diet on.

Here is what they look like: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3227528984_06a5027ee1.jpg?v=0

Thanks Connie, that does make great sense. Wonder if that article from WDJ can be accessed this far past?

He is 4, intact, and weighs 110. Pretty active.

Vomiting is pretty quick, and still looks like chicken. The way it went in, with a little slime added.

No toddlers or immune compromised people here. Eventually there will be a pet sitter.

I'm sure they are backs. I bought a case. They have fat I cut most off right now, a little organ meat, and tiny bits of meat attached.

He seems to get runnier poops when I let most of the fat on things. The poops have been a moving target so far. Too much bone mostly, then too much fat I think. Today looked better but he had eaten some hay that my husband threw in a muddy place outside the barn door. So that messed up the poop.

IMO, both backs and leg quarters need some augmenting with boneless meat. RMBs by themselves produce (in my pack) hard, crumbly, constipated poop. I go by a roughly 50-50 ratio by weight. 1 pound of RMB (any part) to 1 pound of muscle meat. Yes, there is some variability in the bone-to-meat ratio of different chicken parts, but it averages out over time. A whole "frankenchicken" would also include all that breast meat, plus all the innards and the odd feather than we're not feeding. So the RMBs need the addition of some additional volume in meat (and, perhaps, in some veg, if you're so inclined.)

I've got one that regularly eats too fast and regurgitates it back up. When that happens (less frequently now as I've devised several strategies to slow her down) I just let her re-eat the food. "Vomiting" is different. Vomiting is a more active process that includes retching, and expulsion of partially or mostly digested food. When the food just silently falls back out of the dog shortly after eating it, that's not really vomiting. It usually just means the dog ate too fast, or consumed something that requires further chewing.

I'm not overly fastidious about dog slobbers either, but I do wash my hands after preparing their meals. I wouldn't knowingly put my own hands in my mouth if they had dog slobber on them, but I probably have. Hand-washing is a fairly prudent habit to get into in general, whether one has a dog or not, or feeds raw or kibble. I don't think a raw-fed dog's mouth is any more or less dirty than a kibble-fed dog's. Or a human's. If a human spit on my hands, I'd wash them before I ate a sandwich.

I rinse out the breakfast food bowls with hot water and let them dry on the counter. After the supper meal, they go in the dishwasher. So mine get "washed" once a day. Just my habit.

Tracy, you made me laugh a few times. Lots of good info. It all makes sense. I try to keep slobber out of my mouth too. Lol but I have been eating and sharing, you know "I eat out of the left hand, you eat out if the right", then get them mixed up and go, oops wrong hand!

I picked up a box of gizzards today and looking for other affordable boneless chicken options. We are still sticking with just chicken for a bit yet til the poop is consistent. Can't wait to be able to branch out.

He is eating leg quarters and at first I was holding them to help him get started and he can tear pieces off. The last two he ate all on his own. He crunches up the bones in thigh and leg but then swallows it without pulling it apart. Now you would think that would come up pretty quickly but it hasn't. I still would like to see him swallow smaller pieces but I am worried if I give him smaller pieces he may not chew up the bones.