Hi guys! I've taken the selfstudy course Heeler's Toolbox, beginner, from Forrest Micke. I loved it very much and so I've enrolled in the interactive course in January.

but there is one thing, which confuses me. I've put the question in the discussion forum there, but never recieved an answer.

My question is: Why - when performing the hand touch - we hold the food from the beginning in the target-hand? (In Forrests course)

When I took Marks Relationship Course he corrected me several times for this. He wrote, I should put the food into my target-hand after the dog has touched it. This is no critic, I think there must be a good reason for this. I guess, (but only guess!), that here it is done like that, because we want our dog to push into that hand into the direction or behaviour we want from him. This happens certainly easier with food in the same hand, as far as I understand it.

But wouldn't it be possible as well to lure him and make him push with an empty target-hand and mark when he fullfilled his task and then put the food in there, like Mark Keating emphasizes it? Like this the dog would learn, that the reward does not always come directly from the luring hand, but that he has to concentrate always the hand which we ask him to follow even when empty. Or is this done in Mickes course just for the beginning?
Has anyone experience wiith this and an explanation? I'd be very grateful for this, because after having both courses I find it somehow contradictory and don't know which one to follow.

Christina, I should be seeing Forrest today or tomorrow and I will ask him for you.

--Kelly

Christina,

Forrest says that his step is more remedial than Mark's step. He says the goal is to have the dog push into the unbaited hand. In the beginning, you can bait that hand to lure the dog into a touch, but it is not necessary for all dogs to do this.

He said you had a good question

Personally I have 3 dogs that did not need to have the luring step added, but my Lab Tyra did. She did not catch on until I baited the hand (she is a dog that I have found requires much smaller steps to learn a behavior).

--Kelly

Hi, Kelly, how nice to meet you here. Yes, this makes things clear. I do understand now and it helps me a lot to get this answer. I understad now both sides and know whith which dog I will have to go on in which way or other. Thanks so much! Only now I discovered that you are moderator too. What a wonderful job and this with those wonderful dogs you have. Great pleasure!