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First time Training Tracking - questions
#3935 - 09/23/2002 03:10 AM |
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I've started tracking with my Rottweiler (first time I've trained in this area). We are using the backyard since its the easiest access to start out with. It is the basic footstep tracking with hotdogs and we're up to about 10-15 feet in length, hotdog at the scent pad, hotdog in every step, and hotdog at the end. He's very good at it (hmmm..could it be all the hotdogs?) -- immediately puts his nose down to the ground and doesn't stop. We've tracked on both dirt and grass and he was fine with both. Apparently he's also done longer tracks of up to 100 feet with the co-owner before I bought the dog, but I didn't have the good sense then to pick up where they left off.
Anyhow, I've got a few questions.
What comes first - should i start removing hotdogs with the length of track we have now or get more distance and then start doing hotdogs every-other step or so?
When do you know its time to add in a turn?
When does the dog actually need the harness and the handler works back more behind the dog?
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3936 - 09/23/2002 03:42 AM |
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A lot of people start turns later in training. I don't, I do them right up front. I really don't see the problem a dog has in figuring it out. I don't believe they think in those terms. If they get used to going straight then it will be more difficult to take a turn. If they always have a turn or two they don't trip out about it. Just go where the hotdog is.
So turns now IMO.
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3937 - 09/23/2002 09:29 AM |
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The dog never "needs" the harness.
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3938 - 09/23/2002 10:13 AM |
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Originally posted by rottweiler_fancier:
What comes first - should i start removing hotdogs with the length of track we have now or get more distance and then start doing hotdogs every-other step or so?
When do you know its time to add in a turn?
When does the dog actually need the harness and the handler works back more behind the dog? If the dog is a methodical, calm tracker, either from nature or from previous experience, then you can begin to RANDOMLY remove hotdogs from the track as well as lengthen the track. But if he doesn't have a consistently calm pace and deep nose, or if you see an immediate change in his speed or intensity, stay with food in each print. Never remove food in a predictable patter (every other step, etc). It must be random, unpredictable, so the dog learns it is worth the effort to check each print.
I start turns on my first track. No reason to teach a dog that tracks always go straight ahead; at this stage with so much food, turns are a piece of cake.
Whether you go to a harness or stay with a line on the collar is just personal and dog's preference. Some work better one way than the other; you can try it and see if you see an improvement, or stay with just the line.
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3939 - 09/23/2002 03:48 PM |
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Thanks for the replys. I wasn't sure how big of a deal the harness was. Is it required if we want to trial?
Also, is it OK to do tracking first, then come back and do obedience in the same area or is that too confusing for the dog?
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3940 - 09/23/2002 04:33 PM |
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A harness is optional, not required, for a trial (if you mean schutzhund style; in AKC it is required).
When trying to teach something new, I would separate the two activities into different locales, only cuz dogs associate the whole stimulus context with the activity. It is to your advantage, in the beginning, to go to the same place for tracking several times, to help him associate what behavior is being asked for. When he comes out to that field, he remembers the last time and gets in gear for tracking. But this isn't a show-stopper or anything. If that's the best/only place you've got, it isn't going to kill him to do both activities there - we do obedience and protection in the same place (tho we change other stimuli to cue the dog into protection, like the helper, blinds, etc).
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3941 - 09/23/2002 07:48 PM |
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Using different equipment on the dog will also que the desired behavior. The easiest is to use the harness for tracking, a wide collar for agitation and slip/prong for obedience. I leave the correction collar on for all, just add the equipment for the agitation or tracking. You can further que it by using different leashes for training each. At the end of training when the dog associates the desired activities with the commands they can all be done with out the added que.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird. |
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3942 - 09/24/2002 02:00 AM |
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Ok great advice so far. I've come up with another question to add to the topic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When tracking, I was taught to set up the dog on a buckle collar to start out with, string the leash under the right front leg and walk 1 foot beside the dog to be able to guide them along ... encouraging the searching of the ground if they start to loose interest.
Anyhow, he's keeps his head down and imediatelly is interested in the track and holds interest in the track. But he tends to forge ahead, missing hotdogs. If I apply slight pressure, he pulls against it even harder or will start to back up.
Whats the cause and solution for this? Are my track "prints" too far apart? Should I space them closer to slow him down some?
Should I be working closer to the elbow/in front of the dog slightly to pace him better?
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3943 - 09/24/2002 08:39 AM |
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There are many things that could be causing him to rush. If there is a 'jackpot' treat at the end that is very attractive, sometimes they'll hurry to get there. If you're laying the track into a head wind so he can smell the treats up ahead, that will do it. If you pull against the line, opposition reflex causes them to pull against you and rush. If he is full grown and you're laying your steps really close together, some adults will walk with their natural stride instead of baby steps and that means they bypass every other footprint cuz they're too close together. You haven't added turns yet, so he knows the end is dead ahead and that's not good either. Add turns so he must pay attention or lose it. And 15 steps is a very short track, barely enough for him to settle into it. Lengthen it a bit, and now that we know he's not being calm and consistent , DON'T start taking food off the track yet. You want a nice consistent picture of methodically going from print to print before you think about randomizing the food.
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Re: First time Training Tracking - questions
[Re: Dana Williams ]
#3944 - 09/24/2002 11:39 AM |
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For what it is worth, this topic came up a few weeks ago with Harry... it seems that he and Deiter(I probably spelled that wrong) are seeing a lot of older dogs that just don't have the drive left to track at the higher levels because people worry too much about the dogs speed early on and squash that drive in their early training. It all depends on who you talk to about the jackpot at the end versus the every footstep deal.
I would be more inclined to do longer tracks, or age them a bit to see how that will slow him down.
Also, are you using hot dogs? They are pretty stong smelling compared to some of the other bait type things out there....
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