Mr. Sheldahl,

I would like to take the opportunity to addess one of your earlier questions on another thread. Sorry it took so long to offer my opinion but sometimes life takes priority over lists.

> Are the character traits associated with its use (tending style herding)
> important to the GSD?

IMO they certainly are. Herding is one of the few occupations left that can produce a working dog because a full-time sheep herding dog must WANT to work and must BE ABLE to work both physically and from the *inside-out* (genetics). It is an occupation that values instinct, self-reliance, initiative, intelligence, courage, sound nerves and team-spirit in the dog. These qualities can NOT be trained into the dog -- they really can only be BROUGHT OUT in the dog.

This is why my dream came to be to build a sheep farm where I could work my dogs all day -- it turned out to be more than a full time occupation for me. This was the only way IMO to really get to know and become comfortable working WITH the dog's instincts and the array of drives and behaviors that come out of tose instincts -- after all, how can one selectively breed for those qualities, including character traits, if one doesn't get to know them. I wanted my dogs, which were genetically selected for this work, to teach me -- that is what they were bred for. I trust my herding dogs, they have never let me down.

Someone posed a question once on another list that "when sheep herding becomes more a hobby or a sport, will the dog still be suitable for real life situations?"

IMO this is a very interesting question because it brings attention to something that can easily be overlooked when trying to select and breed dogs for specific work -- like herding. It is a question that should be seriously thought about. The question brings attention to how the dog can often get lost in man's enthusiasm to train -- where training somehow can take on a life of its own or become an end in itself especially when competition enters the equation.

No doubt training is an essential tool that can be used to enhance appropriate behaviors in the dog -- behaviors that can be of service to man (ie. police K-9, guide dog, SAR, therapy dog, drug & bomb detection, sheep herding, etc.). And so it follows in the case of sheep herding that when training is used as a tool to help encourage, improve and strengthen ALL the natural genetic talents the dog brings with it to this job, then training serves to enhance what is *already in* the dog -- it should not distort the expression of those instincts; it makes those instincts and behaviors *serviceable* -- I call that "education". However, when training is used, instead, to *put into* a dog those same behaviors that are *not naturally in* that particular dog to perform, then training runs the risk of demonstrating more the trainer's ability to train than the dog's ability to work.

The educated dog which has the genetics necessary for performing its particular work will be much better suited to perform work willingly, independently and reliably than the trained, command/control dog which may, or may not, have the genetics. It has been my experience that the educated dog by virtue of its genetics is far more likely to be able to perform successfully on its own in any new or unique herding situation that might suddenly arise unexpectedly than the trained, command/control dog which must rely more on commands -- especially under the stress of a new situation.

When sheep herding dogs are bred more for their "trainability" than for their genetic herding ability THEN we risk losing the dog that inspired vonStephanitz -- IMO this holds true for both professional shepherds & hobby herders.

When sheep herding dogs are trained to perform behaviors on command more than they are educated to use and develop their own innate, genetic herding instincts (behaviors & drives) appropriately to serve the shepherd, then we lose our ability to see and understand just what these genetic qualities and characteristics are that we should be selectively breeding for. IMO that goes for every line of work the GSD (or any other breed) is be selectively bred to do.

The genes will always be there. But, our ability to help produce meaningful genetic combinations is 100% dependent on our skill and ability to clearly define exactly what the genetic attributes are that we need in our dogs in order for them to perform the desired tasks we breed them for. We need to be specific, and, we need to prioritize the value of each specific genetic attribute needed if we expect to have any hope of breeding what we want. If we aren't clear
about what we want, how can we produce it? IMO full-time work proofs the dog's actual inherent working characteristics which trialing tests for.

Ellen Nickelsberg

<<The question brings
attention to how the dog can often get lost in man's enthusiasm to train -- where
training somehow can take on a life of its own or become an end in itself especially
when competition enters the equation.>>

How true....

Ellen, I love you.

Hi Ed and the board family...

I recently watched the herding video and if you have not had the opportunity to watch it, I highly recommend it. I was captivated by the ability and highly trained dogs Mr. Fuller has achieved with his large flocks of sheep and his dogs. I grew up with my father's sheep herding us around the pens as children (much to my father's amusement) and the dogs would then show us "how it was done". It has been many years since I have seen quality herding to this degree and found it a wonderful training video. Besides wonderful scenery and peaceful countryside - thank you for a terrific video......

May everyone have a wonderful day!
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