Reg: 04-09-2002
Posts: 164
Loc: Southern California
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Hello:
I wanted to ask some questions about table training. OK, don't everyone get angry at once -
I am aware of the negative aspects of table training, promoting fight or flight responses in young dogs, etc. I'm not an advocate of this type of training and personally prefer more of a motivational type of training, but I recently came across this statement while doing some research:
"According to Fritz Biehler, we can practice 80% of protection work on the table and it is more effective training than training on the ground."
Now, I have never been to a Fritz Biehler seminar and wanted to know if anyone has ever gone can expound on what they have seen or learned from his techniques or methodologies?
Is this something different that he does, and just does it on the table? No one can dispute all of his accomplishments and I'm not trying to open up Pandora's box, but I am just trying to learn about different methods of training and what works best for the dog.
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
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Brandon,
Can you fill us in where you saw this statment? That information would help to keep this thread from being locked immediately. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
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Actually, Brandon, PM me please with the info, and I'll unlock the thread then - until then, I'm going to err on the side of caution and keep it locked.
Close it back up. The goal of training here has been techniques that are going to be less likely to screw up a dog. Even IF a trainer could do table that had a wider margin for error, the vast majority are going to use overly defensive training methods that are going to have a VERY narrow margin for error and are going to screw up more dogs than they help. Why even appear to support a method that has been demonstrated to be less effective? Left open we are going to get in to the same old debate with people that have no particular clue of what is really going on by using a table and what it trains.
If you can't be a Good Example,then You'll just have to Serve as a Horrible Warning. Catherine Aird.
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
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I'm inclined to agree with Richard here - people can follow the link and read the article, but we're not getting any posts that back up this type of training, so I might as well close it.
For the record, I fully agree with what Richard says. The vast majority of trainers do not have the ability to read a dog to the level that is required for table training to be effective. Perhaps a dog training guru here and there have the years of experience and savvy to make table training work. Great for them. And if you *only* train with that guru, you may end up with a positive view of table top training. But just you know that many of the guru's students will take that training back with them to their home club and try and emulate it, with bad results ( and the fact that the students saw a guru making it work increases the odds that the table training will continue at the home club, no matter how bad the outcome is - that's just human nature.
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