Not sure what forum to narrow this down to, but it's the K9 handlers that I need information from, I think.

I am a CKC Tracking Rep in Canada. We are working on devising a new (competition) tracking test which will involve tracking in urban type settings. In the US, there is a test called "VST" (Variable Surface Tracking), and our test will have some similarities to the VST test.

The VST test is about 600 - 800 yards in length, and approximately one third to one half of the test is on non-vegetated surfaces (sand, gravel, pavement, cement, sidewalks, etc). The test is a minimum of 3 hours old and no more than 5 hours old, and the dogs must locate 3 articles dropped on the track. The pass rate is less than 10%, I believe.

I'm wondering if the AGE of the track is the reason for most dogs' difficulty with these types of tracks.

My question for you is this: at what point do you find that service dogs tend to run into problems with the AGE of the track in an urban setting? Just to narrow the question a bit further, let's say you're tracking on a late spring or late summer day (not TOO hot), in the late morning or early afternoon on a Sunday in an office or industrial park. That's as close as I can describe a typical competition-type track...

TIA for any help.

There are a number of variables which come into play in respect to urban tracks. The ones which most effects the track in my opinion is contamination. It could be people walking, vehicles driving by, other cats and dogs, weather, and list of others which can have effects. As far as doing Police work it would not happen too often that I would attempt to start a track five hours after the fact in a City setting!! Not to say that it can't be done, but the degree of difficulty is very high, and the chances of locating a suspect are very low. When I think of hard surface tracking I think of sidewalks, roads, and parking lots. Unless the conditions are optimum, I would say that would be hard pressed to find a dog that could do that type of hard surface after ageing the track 3-5 hours. With legs of vegitation and articles on the track it would make it possible to complete, but the hard surface portions would very difficult for the dog to pick up on. The handler would have to rely on the picking up on the track loss and casting the dog in hopes to pick up the track on the other side of the hard surface.
Not sure if that is what you were looking for...I may have gotten a little off topic!!

I have been told by some "oldtimers" that you tend to see noticable changes in track scent at around 45min., 2 1/2 to 3hr. and 5-7hr. This is, of course, unscientific, and subject to the syndrone most of us share where all tracks get longer and more difficult as WE age. I have, however had these time frames more or less verified by several very successful Police and competition tracking trainers and judges from both the U.S. and Europe.

PSD's that do VST work mostly do it at night when there is little in the way of recent contamination, thus easier to follow. (At 2:00PM, there have been MANY people walking across say, a parking lot within the past 30min. At 2:00AM, however, we have a different story.) The age of the track seems to make less difference than human contamination, but they are obviously somewhat interconnected since the older the track the more time people have had to contaminate it.

Dogs that are called on to attempt tracks 5 hr. or more old are, in my limited experience, likely to fail anywhere except isolated areas where there simply IS no one else but the "trackee". (This, of course does not include Bloodhounds, who I have been told in strict confidance, can actually run tracks 10 years old without missing a single turn!...ROFLMAO!)

Remember, the PSD is part of a TEAM and is allowed to use anything and everything available to find the tracklayer. There are no silly rules to be concerned with. (Not to slam "rules" for competition) If the dog cuts the track and finds the BG because of body scent blowing downwind...that'll work just fine. If a perimeter unit sees the BG run across a road 3/4 mile ahead and the team can get a ride and start there...that'll work too. About half of all catches are made by perimeter officers well ahead of the dog...you can't even catch a cow if someone does not close the back gate!

Obviously, dogs CAN track 3+hr. tracks...it's done all the time in FH competition with terrain changes. Still, I would say that pavement which has been baking in the sun for 3-5hr. would be damn tough to track across. Most PSD handlers quickly learn to take a "line" across and pick up the track on the other side...which is what k9cop was talking about.

These would be difficult conditions even for the best of dogs and most experienced of handlers. My hat is off to anyone who could complete such a track...a 10% pass rate sounds about right, if not a little high.

Thanks for posting. That pretty much confirms what I thought. Would still like to hear from a few more people to help me convice the committee. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by ikor:
Obviously, dogs CAN track 3+hr. tracks...it's done all the time in FH competition with terrain changes.

Tell me, in FH, do they have turns on non-vegetated surfaces? Or is an FH track mostly in vegetation?

On TDX tracks, the age is 3-5 hours over "varying terrain", but there's always vegetation, and that makes it SOOOO much easier.