...so how do you correct something like that? I can see how that would be a problem in the field.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Okay, I looked at it again. This is what the dog learned." He pulls his weapon and I get my butt kicked. " or " Before I get my butt kicked, he pulls his weapon" . There are better ways to handle this, but it may be a hassle because it would involve some training.

First of all... I'm far from a pro. But isn't the intent of an Alpha roll to show you are dominant? This guy is using it to correct the dog for not listening to commands?! It was my understanding it is to show your alpha dog that he isnt alpha over people.
Second of all... I found out the hard way, just how dangerous an alpha roll is. Many years ago I rolled a 6 month Rott... he grabbed my face in his jaws, and held me there til I let go of my hold on him. If his tooth had been 1/8 inch lower, I would have had eye damage. Good thing he really didn't want a piece of me... he just taught me a good lesson.

I'll have to look at the video again, I didn't see any blood so I did not think he was bitten.
Now there was some close quarters that could have produced a nip or teeth marks, but I didn't see the dog grab and tear at him. I really didn't hear a aggressive tone growl from the dog. Maybe toward the guy out of the picture, saying do it again. Damn dogs pretty smart.

Because even a bite that you pull away from bring blood, lots of blood. I did see the other officer hand the handlers revlover back to him, I wondered what that was about, after all that commotion.

Like the rest of you I don't see how the dog learned anything, even if he was showing aggression toward the handler for pulling his duty weapon. It sounds like it time for desensitization training slowing making him except the bang from behind the leash. Rather then the dumb Alpha Roll technique. The handler was just doing as he was told, the trainer, the technique and how it was employed is what distrubed me. See what a dog has to put up with.
Us dumb ass humans. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

The dog showed amazing self constrain that close to his face and jewels, even after a IMO poorly setup and timed attempted correction, and he may have nipped but he didn't try to hurt him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hmm. Well know doubt Maryland police needs a real trainer. It is unfortunate and we should start a post on how to deal with handler aggression I think but before that I think it would be interesting to talk about the causes. The idea that PETA could handle this dog makes me laugh though. Here is the all too common tale of “trainers”. It is not the handler as much as it is the trainer’s fault. What an idiot. You can believe this is not an isolated case and handler aggression is a all to common flaw.

One very good dog had his beginning work done with me. The dog was the kind of dog who will kick ass and take name on the fly. Athletic and fast even though he weighed over 90lbs. This dog belonged to one of my helper and assistant’s wife. When they got divorced they placed this dog at a larger city training agency whose head trainer, I am sure fell over at his luck seeing the dog in action and given my assistants dog was one of the top dogs in the region 1st year out.

Long story short: The head trainer (remember of several K9s) did something in the handler/dog relationship and the dog corrected him. By his account: “It took a while for me to show him who is bass but 3 years and 6 trips the hospital we have found an agreement…” The fact is this dog will save his life when called to action and won’t quit until dead. It is a sad thing to know few can handle the engine that drives the hammer and ruin the dog and his trust enough he thinks he is a battle for his life. Good dogs don’t die willingly and it is exactly why the ALPHA ROLL IS THE DUMBEST IDEA to try on any dog. If he submits he says ok you win to us. But to him he is saying ok you can kill me I give up.

Looking at the video, it's my impression he didn't do the alpha roll because the dog would not sit but because the dog bit him. It's true that the training methods that led to the handler being bit are incorrect but the response to being bit, although not my what would be my first response, could be a correct response. I don't really blame the handler. He was most likely trained to deal with this situation in that manner.

I've worked with several over aggressive dogs in my time as a Military Working Dog Handler and being bit by your own dog is something that can not and will not be tolerated. My own personal response to being bit by my own patrol dog is to apply pressure to the air way, either via the leash if it's on or with my bare hands, until the dog is relaxed. The instant I feel he accepts his situation I release him. If you corrected the dog at the appropriate time for an inappropriate behavior and the punishment is warranted most dogs will understand the relationship between behavior and punishment and not re-attack the handler. In the times I've had to do this I've never been re-attacked. I lost my grip once and got bit on the hand but never have I been re-attacked.

I have had to get on top one of the dogs, not for an alpha roll, but to control him. It was an off-leash 95 lb. malinois who was flailing around so much I was going to lose my grip. I pinned him to the ground and held him till he relaxed. The dog was dead-ringed on a regular choke chain and slipped it while I was holding him by the collar and calling out a hidden suspect. I had no idea the dog had always been allowed to bite immediately upon finding the bad guy and his stress of waiting was released upon me after about 15 seconds. Bad training was at fault by the prior handler but the bite of his new handler could not be tolerated.

I still don't agree with the training that led up to the rolls but the trainer made a few good points. You can hear the dog in the video going into avoidance during the alpha rolls. It's trying to get away and switches between an aggressive response (biting the handlers hands) and avoidance (wriggling away). During a couple of the rolls the dog was allowed to escape before accepting it's situation. This only served to teach the dog it doesn't have to accept the handler as his alpha and can alleviate the discomfort on it's own. The trainer was correct in having the handler do it again in order to properly establish dominance and not allow the dog to self reward, although I don't think a roll is the correct way to do it.

To some, it may have seemed like they were just beating the dog for the sake of beating it but the trainer did seem to have a goal in mind (establish dominance since the training for gun acceptance failed) and did not want to end the training until the goal had been met. His method of accomplishing his goal was not the best but the concept he was applying was sound. Hopefully, after the final roll, the training was ended for awhile for the handler to re-compose himself and the dog to relax.