REINIER Geel Webboard User Reg: 01-12-2003
Posts: 186
Loc: South Africa
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Hi all, I have been approached to see if it is necessary to train pure fire arm and ammunition detection dogs and only use the propellants in firearms and not RDX, TNT, Nitrocellulose etc. now the question is this, has any one out there done it and does it yield any better re sults?
Originally posted by REINIER Geel: Hi all, I have been approached to see if it is necessary to train pure fire arm and ammunition detection dogs and only use the propellants in firearms and not RDX, TNT, Nitrocellulose etc. now the question is this, has any one out there done it and does it yield any better re sults? I have done some traiing of dogs for firearms. Mostly for schools and corrections where they add this to narc dogs for use exclusively in their institutions.
In this instance they are not used to obtain warrants and therefore the probable cause issues important in our country don't come into play.
I use expended shell casings and primer residue. Since even a firearm staight out of the factory has been fired.
There is a problem that I'm not sure how to over come. The use of poweders to train the dogs will include nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine and possibly nitroguanine though rare outside of artillary rounds.
In training EDDs I have found many dogs that were trained on powders to indicate on nitro based explosives as well.
My only expertise in this matter is that I had a pup that loved the smell of black powder, but I had read and was under the impression that a big part of training a dog for firearms detection was detecting the typical lubricants used on firearms. If I am wrong set me straight, please.
REINIER Geel Webboard User Reg: 01-12-2003
Posts: 186
Loc: South Africa
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Thanks, well I did not want to steer any one in a direction, but just by reading Kevin’s post I can see that we have both experienced the learning curve, why change from broad spectrum to pure, if all you will find is trace elements of the broader spectrum was the question. Well in propellants, and I am talking fire arms and shot guns here nitrocellulose and black powder will be the basis, some ballistic modifiers – lead, copper and then inhibiting and protection cotes like graphite and ether. So this leaves me with only black powder a nitrocellulose to train with, am I right? As for throwing in gun lube that is a big no-no, yes we use to do that as well but we had dogs responding at schools at the glue cabinet and in the post office, we detected coffee and brake fluid. So leave the lubes alone is my advice, there are so many types of lubes used it becomes futile I think.
The lubricant approach is one that I have seen used in schools.
I'm not experienced with it since I felt that the lubricants weren't specific enough to firearms.
Originally posted by Thomas Mincher: My only expertise in this matter is that I had a pup that loved the smell of black powder, but I had read and was under the impression that a big part of training a dog for firearms detection was detecting the typical lubricants used on firearms. If I am wrong set me straight, please.
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nashville, TN
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As part of a contract for a government agency, while I was assigned to a research facility, we trained several dogs for weapons detection. The dogs were to be used primarily to detect concealed weapons, worn by people in crowds, gatherings etc. The dogs were trained, first on the standard propellants, then on the residue of ignited propellants, then on spent casings, then live ammunition. As part of the odor profile, we also used recently fired, and recently cleaned weapons. The program, from the research side of the house was very successful.
DFrost
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