There was another thread on cross-training, but I have a couple of more questions on this subject. For background, I have a 7 month old GSD pup whose early bitework training has been done by a French Ring Trainer. It's taken the pup a while to come around (he dropped out for a while while teething), but now that he's maturing, his drives are really starting to kick in with high prey drive and with big, full, determined bites.

My trainer would like for me to work with his club and to get at least his Brevet and FR I. He understands that I want to get a Sch III on this dog eventually and is willing to work with me to get his bark and hold other training techniques for Schutzhund as well.

1. My thinking is that it will be easier to move from the bite suit and leg bites in FR to the sleeve bite in Schutzhund than to go from sleeve to leg. Does this seem like a valid assumption? The pup has already taken bites on a soft leg sleeve.

2. Second, the trainer has worked dogs in defense before and is willing to work that for the dogs bark and hold, etc as the dog matures. I like the work he's done with other dogs and love how my dog has been progressing. He seems to have a good knack for reading the dog (the older ones I've seen him work with) and in tapping into defense judiciously when working them. Anything I should think about here? Should I be worried about him getting locked in prey?

3. The jumps concern me in FR. While my dog is pretty lean and athletic, I'm concerned that it might be more of a strain for a GSD than a Malinois in general. I certainly won't be letting him do any real jumps until he's at least 1 year old. What should I watch for here?

Thanks for any thoughts on this subject. I don't plan on turning this dog into the best FR dog in the world, but I think he could be a pretty good schutzhund dog. I'm willing to be patient while getting there, though and think the FR experience could be good for both of us (I have a lot to learn as a handler/trainer!)

Alan:
In the club that´we are training, there is a GSD (american lines), that has is ScH I, and he he got cross trained and got is FR II.

My male german GSD, was trained has my personal protection dog (using ScH techniques), and now is getting training techniques from the French Ring. Our Trainer believes he can go all the way to French Ring II also.

So, we did thing the other way as you are planning it. We first give him the Sch bitting sleeve, and now started with the body suit. Not because this is the way the trainer has planned, but because this is the way things happened (use to train in another city/club in Schutzhund techniques). In the escape bite or the long bite, my dog will always aim to the pectoral or to the back of the helper first, and then during the guard will bite legs (the helper on the body suit). But we have to take care of him getting always full grips.

Dont worry about your dog get lock in prey, if you do thing correctly from start, switching your dog between drives.

According to my Trainer, FR is a more demanding sport (in the protection phase) than Sch. But my believe is that it is more difficult for the dog to bite the Sch Sleeves (not puppy sleeve), than the body suit.

hi,
we have a schIII rottie that trains french ring with us and has already acheived his frI. we don't necessarily put our dogs in defense, but we will put "pressure" on them when they are good enough to take it. as for the jumps, i would wait until the vet and breeder say "ok." since you are only planning to go to ring 1, you can choose your jump, and just choose the hurdle, i believe schutzhund has one, and it shouldn't be as physically tasking as the palisade or long jump. i don't know if the suit is all that much easier for the dog to bite, i have never seen an esquive in schutzhund, BUT the suit is quite a bit softer. i think dogs can be cross trained, depending on the dog, ofcourse; but if you are concerned about bite placement, you can have the dog start on the arm of the suit. i love ring, so i wish you alot of luck. good luck with that schutzhund stuff too!!!!
brandon

Thanks for the replies Shea and Brandon!

I think that my pup can handle both, and I don't have a goal of going to the BSP anytime soon so I won't be losing too much training time on the Sch side either (I'll be going to a Sch club some of the time as well to work tracking and sleevework mostly- probably alternating weeks with the Ring club)

The fact that I can choose the jump really lessens my concern for FR I. I just didn't want him doing anything too physically demanding until he was mature enough to handle it.

I really love the energy that the FR dogs display in their bitework. Unlike what I've read about FR, my trainer does great work in promoting a full, calm bite - he promotes the prey drive, gets the bite and gets the dog to work for a counter before letting the dog win. My pup has a long way to go in terms of technique, but his drives and bites are really starting to look nice.

Good luck in your training!

--Alan...