I just want to share something with the board that I find quite puzzling and actually quite disturbing.

A friend of mine wanted to get a Rott for quite some time now. Well there isn't a breeder where we live and he wasn't too keen on the idea of getting one shipped. When an add appeared in the paper for rotts he wanted to check it out and asked me to go with him.

The add stated that the pups were from titled German imports. So we decided to go see what the pups were all about.

The parents were really obedient and nice looking dogs too. We started talking to the owner and I asked how much he wanted for the pups. He said $600 which I thought was reasonable. I asked to see the dog's pedigrees and he said that since they're both imported he didn't have them yet that he would have them later. So I asked if the pups have papers and he said that if we wanted papers it would be an additional $600.

I just found that really, really strange and honestly I don't think those dogs had any papers to begin with. He claimed they were titled in Schutzhund but had no proof. Is there any way to check?

I told my friend to forget about getting a pup from there anyways. But my question is why don't the dogs have papers? Where do these dogs come from? I mean do they come from any particular lines? Whats the deal here? And why would someone want to sell unpapered dogs anyways.

Sorry don't mean to ramble on I'm just really puzzled by all this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The ADRK is the registration group in Germany for the Rottweiler. I'm not totally up on my Rottie lore, but the organization has very strict rules about registration in the club for breeding purposes. It is difficult to transfer the paperwork from this organization. Adding more money is very reasonable in this situation. They may have been crooks, but they also could be on the level.

Ask what orgainization the registrations for the parents are under.

Anybody up to date on their Rottie stuff?

If you e-mail me I can ask a friend for you about how it works and what to look for and ask the breeders.

If your friend has doubts now, just pass on the pup. You will be better off waiting and taking a weekend and driving somewhere to pick up the "right" pup. If the dogs were titled german imports I doubt the pups would only bring $600. It just seems "off" to me.

I would ask the breeder if you (or someone you know) "can show up in a full bite suit and fire these parents up with a whip, take a few bites, and test them for gun shyness etc to see what their made of". This is where you'll start to seperate the BS from the truth. Papers and titles shouldn't make or break a deal in my opinion.

Jason, that was well administered advice.

Most Rott people know some of their dogs pedigree by heart, they should be able to give some info on the pedigree. It can take some time to transfer papers over from the ADRK. But, that should have been done before the dogs were ever bred! After the fact can cause additional problems with reg. the pups, etc. Also the average price of a Rott pup coming from titles parents is at least $1,000 to $1,500. It would make no sense to me to sell pups without papers as well, if in fact they could be reg. in the first place. They should also have at least a copy of the original papers and hip ratings from Germany and at least a copy of the dogs score book from the ADRK. If they don't have any of these they are either crooks or they got screwed big time by someone in Germany! My opinion would be to stay away, people on the up and up have at least something to show you.

Totally agree with Doug. Something's fishy there. Maybe I'll get flamed for this next statement, buttt, I wouldn't necessarily pass on a good working dog simply because it was not papered. Let me qualify that a bit. I think Jason was on the right track. IF the parents were BOTH on premises and were supposed to be sh%$ hot SchH dogs, the breeder ought to be willing to let you test them out a bit. It may be that they are in fact good workers. Do they have scorebooks on premises, if not, can they get them? Most importantly, however, I would NEVER EVER look to purchase a Rott without health certs, hips, elbow certs on BOTH parents and a heart cert on at least one parent. Rotts far too prone to defects in these areas to buy blindly.

Still, though, it's a somewhat risky thing to buy a pup this way. I probably wouldn't. However,a mature dog would be a different story.

Flamesuit in place.