I agree with Lauren. I have a 1/2 Amer, 1/2 German working lines (no Amer show lines, all akc ob) and a all german working lines female.

I love my male to death, he has the most incredible schmoozy temperment. I worked him in SCH and he did well. Medium drive. He loves to track, so I am learning the FH with him.

Then there is my female. Just as schmoozy, but HIGH drive is an understatement. Toy and food drive. And KKL1. Boy, did I have to react much more quickly. She is intense and loves to work. Her focus is incredible.

Big difference.

but I intend to add language that makes these ASS and SV types disqualifying faults. As in go home, no show for you today.

And how does one go about doing that? I'm not being tacky, I'd really like to know. I assume it means becoming part of the establishment in order to effect change...'cause raging, ranting and tilting at windmills is not going to do it.

BTW, VanCamp, all those <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> are not good for the blood pressure.

Hello Dave,
I believe in the long run if the so called "universal sieger" program in Germany pushes thourgh, and most of the gsd or even all are from the working line so be it. We have a saying here in the Philippines that "if you don`t look at your past (beginings) you won`t reach your goal." So I think let`s look at what the Captain wants the gsd to be. Then we can work from there. Improvement or development I think is not bad.

There already is a Universal Sieger competition, both in Germany and here in the US. It attracts only minor attention. And you can't change the standard of the GSD; the standard is dictated by the country of origin, so in our case, Germany. We have to abide by THEIR standard, which is GSDCA's big heartburn - they want their own interpretation and they're being spanked for it.
IMHO, the driving force behind the evolution of dog breeds is the opinion of the average pet owner, unfortunately, because that is who buys the vast majority of the puppies and thus funds the breedings. Second in strength behind them are the show people, becuz they often have a great deal of money. Third (last!) are the minority branches of working folks. We will always be in the minority becuz John Q. Public doesn't want to live with the type of dog that you and I do. They LOVE the "elegant" look of the show GSD (don't shoot me, I said THEY love it!!), the throw-rug attitude, and if he barks occasionally when a stranger comes up the drive, so much the better. That's perfect for the vast majority of people. And that's exactly what the show GSD gives them. All we can do is try to preserve our little niche in the bigger picture. JMHO

The Universal Sieger program is new (since 1998 here in the US I think) and could be marketed MUCH more effectively. For example, offering U-VA1, U-VA2 ratings for runner ups. Or, creating a specific conformation competition / show for national working competitors. It could be fun...we will see what happens.

The very original question was, does one mix show with working in a genetic experiment. The answer is........... HELL NO!! It amounts to that very thing, an experiment. Nothing but freak show specimens will come out of that, I'm afraid. Find your SG working dogs and TRAIN. If your true desire is to run around in a circle ( don't make fun of NASCAR, ever see what direction the show ring goes?) buy a tread mill. When you find a TRUELY pronounced working dog that obeys like a slave, tracks like a pig on truffles, bites like an alligator, loyal to the death and will fight for the fun of fighting AND carries a V, elect him king, don't let him stand to fu-fu females and CALL ME, the money will be there. Oh yeah, he needs to be sable and disqualified from the CGC and American Shows!

The unification of extremes almost never averages the golden middle, it will take many generations and the COURAGE to remove from the gene pool what does not fill its purpose.

That was a killer post.

128 responses, vince is that a record?

Sure is. It is too big to follow for late comers. If I see no activity for a day or two I will close it. Feel free to brake off into smaller threads.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Laura Sanborn:
Caniche said:

I wish somebody had shown a German line GSD at the AKC dog show I attended many years ago. I was turned off toward GSDs for years on account of the slinky hock walking dogs I saw there.

Laura

It is sad what the conformation shows did to the dog. Even before I got educated about GSD's, I knew there was 2 kinds and had pity on the poor feeble looking ones that stood like a Hyena.

I've been reading over and over about the issues of temperment in some of the working dogs too, imbalance between prey/fight drives and "nerve" (stability), which also seems to result from competing dogs in sport where 'drive' is a high priority at some trials. But (to me) nothing is more pleasing to look at than a stout, vibrantly healthy dog that can work or compete in a sport derived from 'dog work'

Based on what I've seen with my own dogs and the ones I've seen at shows, and then ... Well, it comes down to (far as I can see) the best dogs are the ones that are ACTUALLY WORKING... the ones that are doing the job.

I wonder what's gonna happen to border collies and Australian blue heelers now that they are under AKC and something other than "getthing the job done" will be judged?

ALways
Bobbie