Sarah,

I have not checked the board for some time & may not be able to keep current so I probably have no business posting her. But you remarked that the show breeders in the UK were defensive when asked questions about what they are breeding. I believe I heard recently that the SV has singled out both the UK GSD and the American GSD as not conforming to SV standards and as a result has threatened to exclude them from WUSV membership unless this situation is addressed and corrected. If this is the case, what do the the UK show breeders have to say about it? How can they justify what they are doing (as you described)?

Ellen

Ellen

Thanks for posting. Yes you are more or less right in what you say about the SV wanting to exclude the UK from WUSV membership.

However the reason is not because they think the dogs themselves do not conform to standard. It is because the UK kennel club do not insist on hip/elbow scores, haemophillia tests, breed survey, temperament test or working qualification in order to be able to breed a GSD.

The UK kennel club will never insist on these things because it makes far too much money registering litters from any old dog.

The breeders themselves? There are a few (like me) who would welcome all the required controls. Most of these few breeders breed German line dogs. The majority though would do all they can to prevent the controls coming in because:

1. Their dogs would never pass a courage test because their dogs are bred to suit the UK public who think it's wrong to teach a dog to bite. They bred the shy ones and now their dogs are weak nerved fear-biters.
2. They can't be bothered to train the dogs for a qualification
3. They keep far too many dogs locked up all day in prison with only half to one hour "exercise" a day. When are they going to get the time for individual training for each of these dogs?
4. They don't have the knowledge required to train the dog and there are very very few recognised schutzhund trainers in the UK
5. Many still don't even bother to hip score and think it's too expensive

Ireland has recently imposed all the regulations and is having it's own Sieger show. I really want it to happen here. As I said there are a few of us who do care and have said that we will travel to Germany if necessary to get our dogs breed surveyed and titled.

Thanks for your interest <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry I didn't clarify "How do the show breeders justify what they are doing?"

Well, traditionally they bred the shy ones as I mentioned but now they are jumping on this band wagon of "a GSD must be a high drive / up for it animal capable of working" So now they are trying all the tricks in the book to make their nervous unstable dogs look as if they fit the bill. Hence their behaviour at shows.

Unfortunately then when they win a show with a dog like this (especially under a German SV judge) they feel vindicated. Why do such dogs win? Because all the ones who are into show are all the same! The ones who think like myself don't show at all often and are therefore not in the "social circle" and our names are not well known.

Question: would you expect a bitch in a minor puppy class to suddenly (unprovoked) lunge and attack the bitch standing next in line (hair up and lips pulled back)? These breeders were congratulating each other on how "up for it she was" As long as she didn't growl at the judge it doesn't matter how much dog (fear) aggression she has!!! She placed much higher than my dog who was very alert but in good control. But then again my dog looks different to theirs: no roach, straight back, carrying less weight etc.

I'm sick to death of the whole lot of them! Roll on some change around here!

Sarah BMK,
Keep the faith, never change your thoughts on what a Working Line GSD should be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think I got slammed. . .in a nice way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (the worst kind)

Honestly, I don't know dick about the UK show lines, but I can rant anyway.

I can give you a hard and fast rule about showing dogs. Anytime you get people showing utility/working dogs in a conformation competition without first disqualifying the dogs that don't have working ability, you get a real -F-ing problem.

So, all shows and show lines have problems. You should have a working evaluation before a dog is allowed to compete in a conformation evaluation. That isn't going to happen, so bugger the lot of 'em!

As dogsport becomes more and more popular I expect to see most of these show people change their tunes, not their dogs or their breeding practices, but their sales pitch. That will hopefully lead to more people wanting to know what working ability really is. Then they will wander around looking at other options. "Hmmmmm. . .why doesn't that dog have a sloped butt, or the sick angulation? Hey, I think they are going to do some bite work. . . HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THAT MONSTER!?! I'VE NEVER SEEN A DOG LIKE THAT!??? Excuse me sir, where did you get that dog?"

I don't think the answer will ever be found in the AKC or the UK registration systems or the breeders/owners that are addicted to showing dogs. And with the split between the SV and the German Police, that organization is on its way down the crapper as well. There are all kinds of jerks trying to push through new rules about bite work and shows.

Flush. . .

Hahah VanCamp.... hit nail on head there! Great Rant man.....it's all the same S**t just in diffrent toilets.

VanCamp

ZapZapZapZap!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No, really, thanks for your comments - I'm just feeling particularly P**d about the scene here and wanted to feel that at least the best guys in GSDs on the net identified with me and accepted me and my views! "Ahhhhhhhhh" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Love you really <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Wonderful reading your thoughts on the GSD in England, Sarah... it goes in my "print it out and frame it" category!

Don't mind VanCamp, he's off the scale civil and hasn't been taught to out (sorry Robert <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

Pete