Pups should live together for the first 8weeks. Then they should be split up shorty after to bond with humans rather than dogs. If you have dogs in the litter, that are not as sure as the rest, you can work more with those dogs to help them along. You don't have to split them up early, in fact, I think that is a stupid idea. They need that time to learn proper canine communication from their mother and sibblings.

I can attest to this statment VanCamp
You don't have to split them up early, in fact, I think that is a stupid idea. They need that time to learn proper canine communication from their mother and sibblings.
My pups whole litter died at birth due to a bad c-section, only him and his brother survived, with only one litter mate to learn social skills with, I had some real problems with dog socilation issues for the first 3 months. He is all good now, but has dominace issues because he was the dominate between the two brothers, so he instantly tries to dominate ANY dog he comes in contact with, even big scary ones.... so I agree completly with leaving them for a full 8 weeks, and no less, no more, with siblings.

Okay, I'm watching these posts and I'll come out of hiding. *smile* I'm Karl's club member he has been talking about. I raise my litter all together until 8 weeks and if I have any left after 8 weeks, I start to seperate them and work with them individually. (I was told this was wrong and I disagree) I believe that by letting them run as a pack, it lessens their attentiveness to me, and if there is a lesser or weaker animal in the litter, it won't be helped by being dominated by it's siblings. So, I believe, after reading your posts, that...ahemmmmm...karl.....they agree with me. *laugh*

I will take a puppy and run it with other adults if I am right there. At that time I am the leader of the pack, and the other dogs are kept in line and won't pick on the little one. But as soon as I go out of the yard, the little one is put up.

If I'm trying to teach something, then all dogs are put up, and training is one on one.

I don't breed for dog aggression, but in my last litter, I did get dog aggressive dogs. Mom is not dog aggressive, neither was dad (but it was a line breeding on Hegestrauch, which is a very hard working line). All pups were raised together until 8 weeks old. The AKC standard says dog aggression in the ring is not to be penalized. I don't think my dogs tolerate other dogs dominating them, ever. But when raised by me, i don't think they go out looking for a fight either. I can't help when they are raised by others and this is not corrected. But I don't expect my dogs to work in packs, I train & breed for Schutzhund, not hunting. I don't believe K-9 dogs in Police work, ever work in packs either. Only human scent tracking dogs (S & R), and those aren't USUALLY Rottweilers, they are bloodhounds or some other breed more related to scenting.

Anyways, i'm going to continue what I do, as I belive it's right for me. The only thing I changed this time, is I am leaving their mother the option to enter the puppy area if she wants to, as her temperament is superb...and her hanging out with them (which she wants to do) cannot hurt. I used to take her out at 5 weeks and wean them. But I'm leaving it up to her this time.

Daylynn

Richard,
You posted this:
"The breed clubs also sponser the seminars that judges attend to identify how the club interprets the standard. If you don't like what they are judging on, participate in the National Club and make your voice heard for what the proper judging should be. At this point in time there is a fairly fertile field for the re-application and of the working standard and the increase of the working capabilities of the working breeds.If you want properly bred, working dogs put up in the Conformation ring, show them. Don't sit and complain that the judges don't put up the types of dogs that you like if there aren't any in the ring."

Just wanted to say that this has always been my thing. I breed for a working dog. To prove my point to people about working dogs I do things like attend CGC certifications and such. It's nothing big, but it makes a point. I used to always show my dogs in AKC also. Never with the idea that I wanted to win....but so that people could see my dogs even temperaments and that what they thought about Schutzhund dogs was wrong. I never fattened my dogs up or bred them differently so that they wouldn't bounce around the ring like maniacs. I always hoped more working people would show their dogs in the AKC ring so that it would even out and judges wouldn't single out the muscled, leaner, more attitude, working dogs as the odd man out.

Daylynn Kyles

Richard,

I think you may have provided the answer. The person mantaining that dogs should be run together as they did at his house had a verity of dogs from his service GSD to bomb and narc. labs as well as German short hair pointers for hunting. The other person breed and raised rotts and argued for separation when it came to same sex dogs. Maybe the answer is in the mix of dog types. But if your raising the same breed like rotts your better off separating.

Thanks for your insight
Karl

I agree with VanCamp's observation.
Dog aggression and dominance are two different things. Dominance can
lead to aggression and a belligerent attitude, but that is not real dog
aggression. It is pack rank behavior.

 Quote:

Even standard poodles can be very dominant dogs. They are "supposed to play well with other animals WHEN pack order is established" to quote one of my books, and he does socialize quite well after the introductions are over, but is best in small groups of less than 5 dogs and only if they are his size or larger (the larger the better). My dog's mother was top dog in a house of 10 unaltered dogs (including 2 GSDs, and she was only 50lbs).

Generally traditional flock guardian breeds were supposed to work independantly of man but with others of their own breed. They usually operate as a pack and look to one dog as the leader when out with the flock. I watched a Dogs with Jobs episode and there was a girl who had a summer job tending a large flock of sheep in the BC interior to help the Ministry of Forests with new replanted areas. The dogs were 7 Great Pyrenees, had pack rank and they disciplined each other, but they were not dog aggressive. They hung out together fine (except mostly feeding time).

It is a fine line to be sure, but as long as the other dogs know about pack rank and are properly socialized (and the numbers are not out of control) it should be okay. Truly dominant dogs don't really have to fight, they say it all with body posture. It's the betas and lower ranks who usually have a problem.