There is no doubt, we have the genetic material here. The trick is to find the dog as a puppy with the correct combination it and hope the drive and nerves you thought you had in him will hold up. I have been very interested in puppies and the evaluation of puppies vs. outcome. We have been tracking the end-result with the help of a few generous breeders who litter may be once every year if they have 2-3 breeding bitches to rotate selling the pups lower with the condition to participate. I started it almost 2 years ago and so we are just now getting the results of the puppies in “A” group. The idea is to see how accurate the testing and general evaluation of the pup’s temperament and aptitude using a different PAT then currently in use (Puppy Aptitude Test we created) at 6 weeks, 9 weeks and 12 weeks and then compare it to the sexually mature dog.

So my point is; when you buy a puppy you are guessing on the dog you hope to make. Genetics give you a better potential but it does not make a great working dog. Therein lies the financial risk in America were raising a puppy to solid working stock is expensive and risky. Still, there are a few out there willing to risk it.

When vendors buy grown dogs, some of them will be titled already in a dog sport. Others are green but have in place the foundation work required to finish the job faster then a “Zero” knowledge but high drive dog. This is better for most because you sort of know what you are buying and thus have at the business stand point, a calculated risk toward producing a marketable dog for police work.

But you are absolutely correct about the genetic material in the US. The trick is knowing where to source. Most in the business sources are sporting-dog breeders who have good imports they bought at a “premium price” (another topic altogether). People often buy next generation hoping the son may have similar qualities. The breeder, wanting to use the most out of his investment, sells high because comparative to the low end of the breed it is justified by the demand. Sometimes they do price themselves out of commission however.

Good genetics at a good price can often be found in 2nd or 3rd generation dogs but they can be hard to find unless the breeder tracks it. (most do not)

In the end it is less hassle and less risk to buy green dogs trained in Europe where they won’t command as high a price as the guy who titled his dog Schutzhund 3 with high marks or the other guy hoping his bitch will produce the same when bred to him.

Thank you for your comments!!

the police in england DO NOT use any particular kennel or blood lines.

the pups are born , they are then brought on in the same fashion and then tested at 7 weeks old to try to get an idea of what they will be like in the future.

those that pass go on to handler and those that dont are sold off.

the police DO NOT go to any particular breeder although they do buy from some certain ones occasionally, they prefer to breed from their own stock. and perhaps once in a blue moon buy from breeders in europe to introduce a new blood line. but if it doesnt produce a good prospect litter then as far as i am aware it isnt used again at all.

as long as the dog does the work then lineage
and breeder dont come into it

I think it is interesting that you see the same patterns over and over in the Peko Haus breedings, worth looking at IMO.

Very similar patters, wouldn't be too bold to say identical patters, more so than most kennels.

Van camp, that what I have been thinking!! Finding a pattern of bloodlines that give the best results and at least starting there!! There must be a few bloodlines that repeat over and again to produce better and stable dogs!!At least a higher percentage of good pups from each litter, does anyone know of the average rejection rate per litter that the services get??

In history there have been plenty of breeds that have been produced to satisfy a need, in fact almost every pedigree dog has had a 'human' reason for existing!!

Maybe the Mal is going that way??

Cheers

Mark said,

"DDR have done it, Czech Republic and Slovakia to a
lesser extent as well! Dedicated kennels that the rest of the world look to now for their own dogs!!!
It seems the Swedish mental test is going that way as well! (Correct me if I am wrong please)"

Regarding Sweden, most PSDs/military-dogs in sweden was breed by a stateowned kennel, which started their breedingprogramm in the early 30s, but had to stop breeding due to financial problems in the late 90s. But luckily there seems to be an intresst to improve the GSD in my country, there has even been a new organization started which goal is to breed GSDs for sport and service. About 50 breeders have joined this organization so far, it´s much easier to improve a breed if there are many breeders who works for the same goal, sharing information about healthproblems and other problems makes it easier to get rid of such problems.

As to the mentaltest you refer to, these are some pretty good tools for a breeder to see wich lines,litters and so on which are off strong genetic mentality, makes breeding decisions easier. Especially when these test are not trained for, so you see more of a dogs inborn character. There are three different test, one standardized test for adult dogs performed on the workingdogclubs, one test the police use which have some of the situations like the standardized test on the workingdogsclubs, but performed more freely with no strict rules, and also enviromental and fighdrive-test, the goal is to get so much info about the dog as possible, to see if it´s suited for service.
Then there is one test for younger dogs, between 12-18 months, similar to the test for adult dogs, but not quite so many testsituations, this test is mainly for testing whole litters, to see what mentality the litter posseses. You can download this test on this link http://www.ipo.nu click on "video" and then "MH-test".
This is one of the exersises done for adult dogs and often the police too,
http://www.zpice.net/linda/filmer.php
click on "Era L-test kälke"

Regards