I am trying to branch out my knowledge base on lines. I figure the way to do this is study peoples upcoming litters. Why they bred them and what they expected to come out of them. I came across an intersting one and wanted to get peoples thought of the combination and what they thought it would produce.

There is a litter sired by Stormfront's Brawnson. The dam is an Alk vom Osterburg Quell daughter on the top and a Troll vom Korbelbach gdaughter on the bottom.

What would one think this would produce? Why would you think this was bred? Is it someone grabbing dogs because they are winners(Alk and Brawnson)? I know specualtion...but appease me here while I try to understand the German lines more.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Alk would help to offset some of the handler hardness/aggression that is being seen from Brawnson (his sire was known for it). Making an easier to handle dog, while reinforcing the intense tracking ability that Brawnson passes to his progeny.

(I've discussed this a few times with people, can you tell?)

I got the reduction in handler issues via another way (that you might be more familiar with), via my Kane's dam, Elsa z Pohranicni straze. Elsa is out of Lord Clo & Alice Pohranicni straze, linebred 3-3 on Klara Pohranicni straze (Bojar Schotterhof & Bessy Ku-Jan). It made him a very easy to handle dog that's in tune with what his handler wants. I've heard similar things about the Brawnson/Alk combination.

Yes, I understand yours alot better...lol

So would the Alk/Brawnson combination throw a dog like Rocky for instance? Very hard, balanced, down right dominant...with zero handler aggression. I am guessing this combination has been done before. Would the Troll v Korbelbach being a greatgrandparent in this case have any influence? I know the 4th generation back gets iffy. But since this is the 3rd. With the amount of times Brawnson has been bred...where are the progeny? Does he not produce himself? Or is it he produces too much like himself and most people can't handle it?

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Originally posted by Todd E. Gaster:
So would the Alk/Brawnson combination throw a dog like Rocky for instance? Very hard, balanced, down right dominant...with zero handler aggression.

You have just described my Kane, so if the Brawnson/Alk combo "clicks" like that, then yes, there is a good probability you would see dogs like that.

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I am guessing this combination has been done before.

As far as I know, this is the first combination of Brawnson/Alk with Alk being maternal grandsire. But, from what I've heard, Mike liked the combination so much that he wants to repeat it.

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Would the Troll v Korbelbach being a greatgrandparent in this case have any influence? I know the 4th generation back gets iffy. But since this is the 3rd.

IMO, Troll is a good dog to have, nice line to Bernd via "golden middle" type dogs, and then the fact that his dam is Umsa Bungalow (I LOVE that bitch). But if memory serves, Troll and his brother, Torro, were a bit large, so I might watch out for big dogs, depending.

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With the amount of times Brawnson has been bred...where are the progeny? Does he not produce himself? Or is it he produces too much like himself and most people can't handle it?

Well, he hasn't been bred THAT much, but I would have to venture a guess that from what I've heard, most people can't handle a dog like him. In conversations I've had with Mike, Kane is a spitting image of Brawnson, just minus the handler issues. Another reason, his offspring aren't THAT old, really. Another problem I see, Kane is slow to mature (and the Brawnson/Alk combo should be for sure, looking at the pedigree), and most people want it all NOW and don't want to wait for the dog to mature. They mistake the dog for not being "great", when actually they are pushing too fast. From what I've seen, I'd advise people that have Brawnson offspring to take it slow, let the dog mature before you really start to push it.

Todd, contact Peter Betchley, I think he has a female pup from this litter. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If so the pup I've seen is impressive. Very dark sable getting darker and darker. Very nice looking female. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> PM me for Peters home e-mail address.

Yes Butch, Peter does have a bitch from that combo, and Peter is on this board. You can PM him directly on the board. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Todd : i think first of all you need to ask Tony Wade as to why he bred this combo ,but i for one have a very nice sable female from the litter and she is already showing some really good signs of being a good dog .I wanted this breeding due to the fact is that i am into tracking and both lines have some fantastic trackers .I am seeing right now good prey drive ,food drive ,fairly good grips on rag ,but not doing to much of that right now my pup is still teething .She has been started on puppy tracks and is already going down the track only after two times out .At four months she seems to be very sound .
I am seeing also when i push some buttons in play ,she has great recovery and fight ,but i will take it all slow and let her mature ,with only doing tracking right now and taking her every where i go . Peter