Did the East German's have a show and working dog separation? How did Don Rolandsteich (which I always considered more show) and his progeny compare to Ingo Rudingen and his sons Jeff Flamings-Sand, Held Ritterberg, and Robby Glockeneck.

Any ideas on how these lines compare to Mink and Fero lines.

Just keeping this post alive another day.

Eric,

My understanding is yes, there was a work/show split tho not drastic, as in W Germany.

I can't comment much beyond that, I've only owned one of each, 1 Czech import, 1 DDR bitch.

Where is Hanna Leena?

I think that what happened in the DDR (if I understand correctly) is that the work/show split did not have as long of a time to take hold as it did in the West. Although the DDR had a Sieger Show at least as far back as 1949, the award seemed to go to well-conformed working dogs until quite late in the game.

A good example might be seen in the last DDR Sieger, Baldo vom Wolkenstein. In his pedigree, not far back at all, are both Held vom Ritterberg and Bodo vom Graefental--both of which were considered among the great DDR working dogs. Yet by the time Baldo won the Sieger title in 1989, the DDR working and show lines exhibited a noticeable differentiation.

Ed Frawley was at the 1989 DDR Sieger show and has a very fascinating film of the event--it only costs $20 too. Check it out at http://www.leerburg.com/608.htm. The tape is valuable for showing the differences between DDR show and working lines by the time the wall came down, and also the difference in structure between the DDR show dogs and West German show lines.

Pete

Sorry, screwed up the link; here it is again.

http://www.leerburg.com/608.htm

Thanks, I got the video a few years ago. I'm just looking for more information.

In my experience and from what I've learned, the Ingo line through Held and Jeff have been preferred by working class breeders. vom Haus Antverpa and some of the Czech working lines heavily favored Ingo thru Held, compared to Don. Some of the old Czech lines also favor Ex Reidstern (--> Ohle Rudneck). My wife's dog goes back to Ingo 2x and Ohle 1x and Xito Baruther Land 1x, deep in his pedigree (gen 5 & 6).

Comparing him to the dogs I've seen from the Mink and Fero lines, I'd have to say that the primary difference is his handler sensitivity. Most I've seen from the Mink and Fero lines tend to be more handler hard (or at least not handler sensitive). Most of the DDR type dogs I've seen tend toward handler sensitivity. My young male is a great-grandson of both Fero (by Eros Raiserberg) and Mink (thru Crok) and shows more handler hardness at 11 months old.

A big problem lately is the proliferation of breeders breeding DDR and Czech lines simpley b/c ther're DDR or Czech, with little regard to the working quality of the dogs. Most of the DDR blood that persists today in SchH (and other fields of work) come via Robby, Grischa v Schwarzen Milan and Held Ritterberg. There are others out there, mostly thru the Czech working lines, but most are fading fast.

Originally posted by John Haudenshield:
My wife's dog goes back to Ingo 2x and Ohle 1x and Xito Baruther Land 1x, deep in his pedigree (gen 5 & 6).
Comparing him to the dogs I've seen from the Mink and Fero lines, I'd have to say that the primary difference is his handler sensitivity. Yes, I'd have to agree. I've got a male that goes to Ingo 2x and Ohle 3x in the first 6gens (a few more after that and Ex, whom Ingo's linebred on, quite a bit as well as Pushkaß vH Himpel). He is more of a handler sensitive dog, but overall well balanced in drives, good hardness to a decoy, great nose, and good temperment (along with being dominant). It made me have to relearn as I'm used to more hardheaded dogs, one that listened fairly easy was a new twist and I've learned a lot from him so far.

Originally posted by John Haudenshield:
Most of the DDR blood that persists today in SchH (and other fields of work) come via Robby, Grischa v Schwarzen Milan and Held Ritterberg. There are others out there, mostly thru the Czech working lines, but most are fading fast. My bitch is linebred Ingo, robbie and verwin. Very good nerves, good drives, full bite and did I mention good nerves!!

 Quote:

He is more of a handler sensitive dog, but overall well balanced in drives, good hardness to a decoy, great nose, and good temperment (along with being dominant). It made me have to relearn as I'm used to more hardheaded dogs, one that listened fairly easy was a new twist and I've learned a lot from him so far.

Thanks for posting that comment!
It's exactly what I am experiencing with my bitch (Bero-Held-Ingo), and verifies my stance on training, in spite of what the club's TD occassionally advises. (He is much more used to the hard-headed dogs, and can, imho, tend to be too heavy handed for a handler sensitive dog.)

My bitch is an extremely fast learner, will pickup cues one doesn't realise are given (forces the handler to really watch the body language while training!), and works with enthusiasm. As long as no complusive training methods are used. Note I said "training" methods, not proofing...

Solid nerves, great nose, naturally aggressive, civil, drivey (but turns it off in the house), handler sensitive. I like those combos!