Hi,
I'm hoping to get knowledable advice in dealing with unknowledgable K9 handlers/local police. I have a very scary LOOKING 80LB APBT which has been completely obedience trained to exact on and off lead standards (even while under extreme distraction.)

I have trained obedience for many years and have helped train Dobs, rots and sheps in personal protection. For the first time I started working with a APBT of my own, on my own property. The dog is very quiet and extremely trusting of everyone( it took a lot of obedience work to stop him from running over to lick and greet everyone he sees) it took 3 weeks to reliably teach it a watch command where he will bark seriously, act threatening and remain alert. This dog is too friendly to ever be a guard dog but he will make a top pp dog due to his courage, sense of family responsibility and stable reliability around people.

Heres the problem, a neighbor heard the dog responding to the alert command/agitation, freaked out and called 911. They told 911 that they weren't sure what they were seeing because of limited visibilty but believed that my 2 large rottweilers were mauling my children. Shortly after the brief 10 minute agitation period had ended and we were all relaxing the police pulled up. They asked me if everything was OK and said something refering to MY ROTTWEILERS?) I Don't own any rotties or have any on my property. Currently I have 1 APBT. After hearing what happened the officer apologized for bothering me and left to file his report. 2 Hours later I recieved a call from the same officer saying he had just spoke to K9 officers who advised him to advise me to stop training my dog since the APBT breed is to aggressive and dangerous for this training. They work with sheps and mals, my question was then how do they know APBT are too aggressive for PP, they responded knowing APBTs are too aggressive is why they do not use them. (Sounds like circular reasoning to me.) I was warned that the officer would note in a report that when he came over the dog was friendly but that if someone was ever bit I would be extremely liable and the dog would be put down etc. because he was also noting in the report that the dog had been trained in aggression. This dog is known and admired by most in the neighborhood for what is discribed as his unbelievable obedience, some people out walking have called him the wonder dog after seeing him pull wagons and sleds full of kids around the neighborhood completely under commmand ignoring all distractions including dogs, traffic etc. He even travels with us staying in hotels with us going up and down elevators packed with people. I believe he is/ will be the ultimate PP dog since he can be trusted in diverse settings, loves people and only shows aggression when told to or if someone acts in a threatening manner to a family member. Sorry for the length of this message but I sure don't want to stop working this dog I believe he will be one of the best around, and I don't want police problems or to have my dog put on some targeted destruction list. Any Feedback would be appreciated.

Tim,
I sure hate to see you start this thread with second hand information. Had the responding officer actually spoken with their K9 unit handlers? Or were they just bluffing you so that they didnt have to continually respond to your residence because an ignorant neighbor might keep calling 911?
Every police K9 handler I know who has even the slightest amount of dog training knowledge wouldnt make a blanket statement concerning the protection training you are doing just because its an APBT. If I was you I would personally speak with the alleged K9 officers in person to find out what their malfunction is, if in fact they made these remarks.
And, unless there is a city ordinance banning you from humanely training a PP dog at your residence, I wouldnt sweat it. The responding officers did make a valid point though...if your dog accidentally bites someone you definately are liable. That holds true for anyones dog though. But because yours is a pit bull, and the American public has been spoon fed a bunch of hogwash about this breed..you're going to get the double whammy in court.
Just for your personal info, Ive been on hundreds of dog bite calls in the last 13 years where a APBT was supposedly the culprit...Guess what? Only one actually involved a real pit bull!! This coming from a "knowlegeable" K9 handler.

I'm not sure how much space you have between you and your neighbors but unless you have a lot of space you might consider finding another location to do your day-to-day training.

I had a couple of friends and their dogs come to my fenced in back yard one late-afternoon a few years ago for some protection training and shortly after we got started I thought maybe this wasn't sending the right signal to my friendly, dogless neighbors. Nothing bad happened but we made a lot of noise. I didn't want my neighbors to get the wrong idea about my two very nice dogs and so I didn't allow any more training at my house. Looking back on it I think I was a little ignorant do have done that. I'm not saying you are as I don't know your situation. But I do think we should be considerate and careful about the image we project of our PP companions. And we don't want our neighbors to be fearful, after all, it's their neighborhood too.

Sorry to be long winded but I've been lurking a long time and now I've finally posted!

And people ask me why our personal protection group has closed training sessions. :rolleyes:


Don't train in your backyard any more. (isn't that a messed up thing to say!!) Then I'd also try to put as many AKC type titles on the dog as possible. CGC, obedience, utility, tracking, ANYTHING!!

That way you will have verifiable proof of the dog's good temperament and a number of AKC judges who you can cite as references.

Get a CGC as soon as possible.


I'd also try to put some sort of legitimate protection sport title on the dog. If you could get a BH and a SchH I, along with the AKC CGC, that would be pretty good proof of the dog's quality and temperament.


The more legitimate titles and proofs of what kind of dog you have the better.

Robert, as a newbie to this board I wouldn't want to get on the wrong track and pretend to be able to give you or some of the other experienced trainers on this board a critique, but for what it's worth coming from me, I think that's outstanding advice. Probably everybody should get their dogs titled in the ways you described. My two dogs already have their AKC GC Certs. But to be honest, it was your post here that made me realize how important those certs could be should I have ever have a problem. Thanks for the great advice.

I had another thought on this matter. Where I live the sheriff's dept. obtains much of their k-9 training a local trainer's facility. This trainer also trains civilians dogs for PP.

If you're really concerned about your situation you might see if your local PD dept. has a similar arrangement. If so, you might do some training with that trainer and if your dog is as stable and controlled as you say, this trainer might be able to "certify" your dog or at least attest to your dog's good qualities. Then if something happens his assessment would, presumably, trump the assessment of the k-9 handler.

That's my 2-cents on the matter, and it might not even be worth that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks to everyone that responded. I was already thinking I should get a CGC for Buster and after reading the posts I will do it. I don't no if the officer was just bluffing or if the police K9 handlers actually made those blanket statements. I can tell you that eveyone has been brainwashed reguarding pitbulls in our area. ( Southern NJ )A lot of people assume your a criminal or have some ego problem for just owning an APBT or any protection breed. Some people that make admiring comments about our dog's behavior ask what he is then when told immediately assume defensive body language around the same dog they were just admiring. ( I saw this first hand going up an elevator with him this weekend) The ideal dog in these parts is one that would tolerate even Frankenstein carrying away your children and is endorsed by the media as being unable to harm anyone.

Thanks again