Wayne Stromberg wrote: 1. Whatever the laws re. citizens arrest in California?

LC: I can only answer for California. The laws in different states are different and certainly are different in foreign countries. For example in CA you can't use deadly force to protect property, in TX you can.

LC: If you send your dog on someone you'd better reasonably believe (you'll be judged by 12 people who have hours to dissect what you did in seconds) that your life was in danger. If he's running away, he'd better be a violent fleeing felon. Forgery is a felony and some LE agencies deploy their K-9’s on them but I wouldn't and a civilian (non–LE) probably shouldn't either.

Wayne Stromberg wrote: 2. I have heard, though not from an authoritative source, that citizens arrest in CA is only actionable in felony cases.

LC: The laws in CA for what is termed a "private person's" arrest are the same with only one difference for LEO's and private persons. Both can arrest for a misdemeanor committed in their presence with only two exceptions, DUI (Driving Under the Influence) and CCW (Carrying a Concealed Weapon). Either can arrest for a felony except a LEO can arrest for "suspicion." That means that a felony need not have really occurred. The arrest can be made if a reasonable police officer with similar training and experience as the one making the arrest would believe that a crime has been committed, is being committed or will be committed and THIS person is the one involved. For example, if I, as a LEO, come across a man who has in his possession a gun (real or real looking), a wad of money, a ski mask (especially in hot weather) and a woman's purse, absent a good explanation, I can arrest him for suspicion of robbery, even if a robbery hasn't occurred. A private person can't. For him to make an arrest a felony must have actually occurred.

Just spent better part of an hour going through my very thick Florida State statute book trying to further enlighten myself. This book , issued to our officers, contains legal guidlines and criminal proceedure in the state. I was unable to find anything on citizens arrest so for my own info I'll have to go to the law library for the answers.

As far as what level of crime citizens may detain or "arrest" someone....Misdemeanors are about even with Felonies in my experience here. Obviously there are some offenses that I would have a problem with citizens getting physically involved as they arent privvy to criminal proceedure involving arrests.

These are my personal thoughts of spending 30 years in LE.

#1 - Even if you are a private citizen having a PPD, you are a victim or a witness to a crime. The bad guy turns and runs away, why would you want to send your PPD. My thoughts are this, the immediate threat has retreated and leaving, to me, you as private citizen - the best thing you can do for me is to be a very observant witness. Your PPD has done it's job, by protecting you or others from harm, keep him with you - he is a PPD.

#2 - Why even expose yourself to possible future legal litigation, you may win, but you lose. Your insurance carrier may defend you to start - as soon as it is over and you have a dog that bites, they will drop you like a hot pan. Many LE K-9 people are having a tough time with home insurance coverage BECAUSE of the K-9. How many of you non-LE that have PPD, have actually checked the coverage for homeowners ref to liability with your dog. Be careful how you approach your agent. Luckily, my work liability covers my K-9 at home, because my home owners will NOT.

#3 - We as LE really appreciate the public helping us out, however, we don't wnat to see any of you get hurt.

As before - these are my thoughts.
Stay safe and be careful.

Mark,

Well put. It is nicer to have a competent witness to assist in a case rather than having a wanna be cop cowboy turn things into a cluster. But, there are times when we just cant catch the bad guy and never would be it not for a citizen not afraid to be involved. I certainly dont suggest a citizen send their PPD on any bad guy unless there are extreme extenuating circumstances. As you stated..Itll just be a big headache. As far as getting homeowners insurance..I had to change carriers last year and found out what kind of nightmare it is to have a so-called "dangerous dog". Even though I explained that my employer has liability coverage for the working dog I was turned down left and right. I finally found an insurance carrier that didnt have the GSD listed as a risk. Think Ill stay with them for awhile.

Thanks Mark for your reply...Like Howard said, it's nice to have it put so well...
Ultimately, the reason for my starting this thread was for all our protection and to remind us of the potential consequences of our actions..
I'm sounding like my Father now, so will leave..ha
Cheers,
Gary..

Lou and others, thanks.

Hi Wayne,
Not sure what you are thanking us for...but thanks yourself...praise is good.....ha

The USA has a more sensible approach to Self Defence than the UK. Private Security firms who use dogs in the UK don't work them off-lead - the dog is there to protect the handler not to apprehend felons (you cannot get Liability Insurance for off-lead work). Theoretically you could make a Citizens Arrest using your dog but with the "Human Rights Act"(otherwise known as "protection of criminals act"!)in force it would be risky. Send your dog after an attacker who is now running away from you and you are leaving yourself open to being sued by the lowlife's lawyer.

I agree with you John,
In the UK you have to be very careful at what level of resistance that you offer to a criminal. It has be 'reasonable force in the circumstance'. Which can amount to lethal force if the incident is so serious. However, there are then months and months of worry ahead and your future lies in the hands of 12 jury members choosen at random from your peers...(Mmm..not a welcoming thought, is it)..
Having said that, the violence offered by the criminal in the UK is much less than that in the US and I suppose that balances things out slightly.
I think all this go to prove that the detterent and added security of a personal protection dog goes a long way to keeping you safe. A criminal will always choose the softer of two targets and in my opinion, a 48kgs GSD with 42 ivories isn't a soft target...
Stay safe people.
Gary..