Hello all-

Putting this in "general" but it stems from a comment Ed made in a "dog aggression" thread. Ed advised the gentleman whose dog was at various times aggressive to avoid letting strangers pet him. This makes perfect sense, but Ed goes further and says he (Ed) does not let strangers pet his own dogs, and I guess my question to him and all is why, as I'm sure Ed's dogs are not a danger to bite someone, and secondly, should I restrict access to my dog when strangers approach.

About my dog- rescued, 3(estimated) year old male neutered gsd, some past aggression issues mostly centered around the apartment and in protecting his female owner. Wonderful on the leash, great with other dogs, not great but pretty good obediance skills (always responds, but not always right away)

Anyway, I live in manhattan and the dog's confirmations and coat and size and bearing are such that he gets tons of compliments every walk, and people often want to approach, especially police officers ( I assume they are breed familiar). They will usually ask and that brief verbal interaction will allow me to see the dog react to the "new" presence. Reading the dog is easy, even for a non-expert like me, as his body posture and positioning is very different when he accepts someone v. when he does not. If he's ok with their approach I usually let the person pet him, keeping a sharp eye on him and one hand in his collar just in case I'm wrong (although he's yet to change his mind from accepting to aggresive). Almost always he is non-responsive to their affection, aloof and ready to move on.

I HAD been thinking these interactions were more good than bad, but Ed's comments make me wonder.

Please note, I have no ambitions of making him a working dog for a number of reasons. He is purely a housepet and my one remaining training issue is to get him to be more accepting of strangers entering the apartment.

Thanks in advance.

The advice pertained more to working dogs, which I think you picked up on there.

Hello Will-

Thanks for the reply. Makes perfect sense.

I was also inclined to not let strangers pet my GSD's. However, what I felt was a very good thread on this board (please don't ask me to find it) changed my mind.

Another member posted that one day there would very well come a time when I would need that my dog is approachable by strangers. For example, what if I were alone and became suddenly ill (heart attack, etc.) and had to dial 911. My dogs are such that a stranger could come into my home without being attacked, unless they came in an overtly hostile manner. But if my dogs hadn't been socialized and trained and if their temperment were different, I don't know that the paramedics could get through the door.

Additionally, I believe that for most people it's virtually inevitable that at some time or another their dog is going to be in a situation where it's going to need to be stable and sociable enough NOT to bite someone. Try as one might, the situation sooner or later arises.

For a family companion and/or protection dog my feeling is the dog should be very well socialized and that means people petting your dog. But that doesn't mean everybody and their brother does so. A person's actions, not just their mere presence, determine whether or not they are a threat. Your dog should be socialized and trained so that it learns to recognize the difference.

You said that you didn't plan on training your dog in bitework. I'm no expert, by a long shot, so please DO NOT take my word for this. My advice to you is to have someone evaulate your dog to determine if it has the nerves and temperment to be a Personal Protection Dog (PPD). If you are told your dog does NOT have the proper demeanor to do this then I would agree that your dog should be only a "pet".

But, if your dog has the ability to be a proper PPD then perhaps you should consider it. The reason being is that IF your dog has it in him to do the work then you can work with him to teach him when to bite and, most importantly, when not to. Eventually (hopefully) your dog would graduate to the level where a decoy could approach you in a belligerent manner (like an obnoxious drunk begging you for money in a park, for example) and without even looking at your dog (but communicating with him nonetheless) your dog would learn to accept this hostile, loud and threatening man WITHOUT biting. When you're at that level then you can feel fairly confident that your dog is not going to bite someone.

Rather than trying to shut down what is naturally there, instead try to bring it out, work with and control it. Someone said not to work against mother nature. That makes sense to me.

But again, I'm just a working dog enthusiast. I'm not a trainer or an expert, just another yahoo with an opinion. And you know what opinions are like. LOL! Hey Will, if I totally screwed it up just tell me to shut the hell up already and I'll slither out of this thread. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

< smacks head >
Patrick, Thanks for reminding me about that fairly recent thread, I should have referred Brock there to read it!

Brock, we had a thread going about the ability to hand your dog off to a stranger, and it invoked a fair amout of conversation between folks who require a socialized dog and those that don't. It was good reading, hopefully someone can post a link to it....

Here?

cgc test

Melissa,
that's a good post for illustration, but it's not the one that I was thinking of.
The post I'm trying to remember had more of the SAR folks ( who's dogs both tend and need to be more social ) commenting in.
Wish I could find it.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

brock,
check your pm's. click on "my profile" and look for messages in the box