I totally disagree considering SAR work a small matter.
SAR is a work that probably deserves the best merits. Saving somebodys life is not a small matter.

I dont think he/they meant that SAR wasn't important or "not worthy" I "think" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> they are saying that even a "mutt" "pound puppy" can be trained for SAR. (In some cases)
Personally I have a friend with an American Bred Shepherd. She tried to get me to buy from her breeder. Her dog yes will growl and bark at an intruder... while shes running the other way. Now dont get me wrong shes a good dog as far as a house dog. Seems good with "her kids" but I wouldnt want to "gamble" my money.

Just my .02 here.

Its also like saying were all the same blood if we go back to Adam and Eve. Really we have to be rational.

Im not necessarily saying theres not an American GSD that "can't" work since I do not know that BUT it doesn't mean they all are the same, or share the same in terms of blood. JMO

This is going to be a debate that will never be won. Really the only way to convince yourself is to witness first hand both breeds working and not working.

 Quote:

Melisa
I like your description of possibility and probability. That totally makes sense. The analogy of sunrising for this instance (no offense) is ridiculous.

None taken, but trying to prove a non determinate conclusion using a determinate set of premises is just as ridiulous (and the analogy was taken from your premises). This argument will go nowhere, using this reasoning.

BTW, the kennel that you posted has German Show/Herding lines 3 generations back, or am I mistaken?

"They say that the Trommel Shepherds is the only American kennel whose champions have produced both champions and Schutzhund-titled progeny, generation after generation!
You can go ahead and visit their website at the address above"

Baton, I did go visit the website. The dogs being featured on the site certainly can't be called worked dogs. The dogs listed:
Quinn
Carmen
Bailey
all are untitled, and their sire and dam are untitled.
The dogs listed:
Brindi
Becca
all untitled, with import parents.

I'm not sure why you'd post that site as proof - are you trying to prove *my* point? Those breeders post some gibbberish about "following a breeding program", but looking at their current breeding stock ( plus their old dogs in the "History" section ) it's obvious all they are is backyard breeders. Just your typical American Bred GSD's.

And why are you listing those dogs? Take V Nores V Jagerstand - import parents.
Ch Neumann's Jim - imports within 2 or 3 generations.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion, but 5 mins. with the search function of the internet proves my point about American Bred GSD's not having working ability.

And since this topic is going no where - closed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />