Government breedingprogramm
#71632 - 03/30/2005 02:00 PM |
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With all the interrest in Czech dogs and the history of the border-patroll kennel there, I can tell you that similar programm also was done in Sweden.
The swedish army started a breedingkennel in 1936 for producing armydogs, later more organizations like the police also bought most of their dogs from this kennel, which aim was to breed servicedog, train them and sell them to different organizations needing servicedogs.
In fact I think this was the largest breedingkennel in the world, about 400 GSDs puppies each year was produced, and also about 50-100 labradors.
This breeding kennel had large resources due to the ownership of the swedish state and much research was going on by geneticists and vets , this kennel was the first to show that selective breeding against HD could improve the status of the dogs hips in a short time. In a period of just 10 years they reduced their numbers of HD-affected offspring from 40% to just 10%, a dramatic improvment.
Sadly the swedish state was interferring with the skilled persons running the kennel, which made the quality of the dogs go down in late 70s to early 80s. But luckily skilled persons about dogbreeding and training was once again introduced and with harsh selection they once again restored the quality of the dogs, and at the later half of the 80s and beginning of the 90s this kennel had an unique breedingpopulation consisting of almost entirely their own stock, an unique population of working GSDs steeming from the old armylines of Sweden going back to the 30s, also some imported stock during the 60s and early 70s from DDR and some westgerman dogs, and old swedish lines.
Sadly the kennel once again in the middle of the 90s was "destroyd" by politicans and went down in 2002. It´s a shame that this old and fine GSDs population was destroyd, luckily some civilian breeders sometimes breed to dogs from these lines during the 80s and later, and a few of the last dogs with this unique bloodlines are still used by some breeders today.
The funny thing is that once again the government sees the importance of good working dogs, and now the army are planning to breed their own GSDs again.If they only had realized that 10 years ago when they had acces to a very good population of GSDs
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Stig Andersson ]
#71633 - 03/31/2005 10:09 AM |
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During this program, what was the percentages from each litter to graduate as a working dog? Did they see an increase from each litter of pups making it thru the program temperament wise? You spoke about the benefit in health but did they see a increase in working ability as well.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Tracy Brown ]
#71634 - 03/31/2005 11:12 AM |
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According to the persons I´ve talked to who was responsible for the breedingprogramm about 25% of this kennel own breedings was good enough for servicework. This number would probably be much higher if all puppies were given a correct uppbringing. The problem was that puppies went out to fosterparents who keept the dog untill it was mature enough to be tested, around 18 months. The demands on the fosterparents wasn´t so high when it comes to knowledge of workingdogs, so naturally many dogs didn´t reach their full genetical potential due to inproper uppbringing.
But when they sometimes tested dogs from the civilan market, only 3 of 100 dogs passed the selectiontests, so the quality of this breedingpopulation of GSDs was better in general than the civilan population of GSDs.
In the late 80s they had about 20 breedingmales and 60 bitches, consisting mainly of their own breedingstock with no or little outside influence.
They did a number of imports during late 60s from Germany, but these dogs were quite bad as breedingdogs compared to their own native stock. I don´t think there are anywhere in the world that a poulation of GSDs have been breed for servicework so long with a strict selection, so natuarlly it was hard to find such quality in other countries.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Stig Andersson ]
#71635 - 03/31/2005 12:00 PM |
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It seems with 400 GSD pups a year the government could have fostered these pups to local K9 handlers. Police and other service driven homes.I wonder why they didn't foster the pup's to kennels are individuals with interest in dog sports like Sch and Fr ring. I'm sure breeders would have been interested expesically if allowed to occasionally bred using the best as studs.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Tracy Brown ]
#71636 - 03/31/2005 12:16 PM |
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Yes, I agree. But all K9 handlers for various reasons couldn´t do that, they maybe don´t have enough time and so on. But a good "fosterparent-programm" is essential for success. And I know that the demands on the fosterparents are higher this time, when the army are planning to breed again.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Stig Andersson ]
#71637 - 03/31/2005 12:41 PM |
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That's one reason I ask about Blackneck kennels. If, they are breeding working police and military dogs. Wouln't you stand a much better chance of raising a pup to a working dog. In, your response the government were getting 25% to 3% compared to public breeders answers that question. I would like to see a study using the same breeding guidelines but with a much better foster care.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Tracy Brown ]
#71638 - 03/31/2005 02:18 PM |
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Blacknecks is just a civilan kennel breeding for sport or servicework, not a breedingfacility with their own population of GSDs which only purpose was to train,breed and supply the different departments with quality dogs.
I guess I feel a bit special about these unique lines because I myself was a fosterparent for one of their dogs a few years ago. It just breaks my hearts that people responsible didn´t take better care of this great population and saved it for future generations. Luckily there are at least partly some of these lines in some dogs in Sweden, and a few studs are still being used by civilian breeders.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Stig Andersson ]
#71639 - 03/31/2005 04:20 PM |
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Maybe some of the GSD breeders in Sweden feel like you and incorporate the dogs that are left into their breeding program. I think Blackneck is on something but like you I'd still like that to happen on a national level.
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Re: Government breedingprogramm
[Re: Tracy Brown ]
#71640 - 04/01/2005 04:07 AM |
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Yea, and some are and have done in the past. The state owned kennel breed under the name "Arméns" and later changed that name to HS in early 70s. An example of one dog breed from a civilan breeder using one of HS policedogs as stud you can see here if intressted in pedigrees,
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/426636.html
Some dogs with much of this blood have also been on the WUSV and done quite well. If intressted in pedigrees you can do a serach on the pedigreedatabase on the name Arméns and you will see a bunch of dogs that are the foundation of many HS dogs living today.
Regarding blacknecks, many Breeders in Sweden breed from servicedogs, and not only sportdogs. There are even a few wich main goal and purpose is to breed servicedogs. Breeding for sport only is much more common in other European countries like germany and belgium. Not saying this is a bad thing, but the sportfield only gives you a little bit of a dogs character. What good is a full and calm bite, if the dog is afraid of loud noises and slippery floors for example?
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