As with any animal, humans included, high temps can definitely damage the brain. That should be for a vet to determine, or if the dog is acting strange. This was apparently the first time this happened?

As I mentioned earlier, if the dog does not respond to calm, collected corrections, in a controlled situation where he cannot win the fight, then obviously something else will have to happen. One instance of fear biting, if that was what it was, does not mean that this dog is necessarily dangerous. It's the follow up and actions afterwards that can determine that.

Ok Here is my VERY LIMITED experience, with a pup of the same age. Mine is 13.5 weeks. I have never had a pup before, however plenty of 'dog' experience. I compete in agility and went shopping for this 'high drive' GSD to compete with.

I took some very experienced SchH people with me to look at the litter. One male was an 'alligator', biting on pant legs, growling, when he was tattoe'd he bit the guy doing the tattoe, this is at 7.5 weeks. The SchH people LOVED this guy, thought he was 'pick' puppy. Loved all this behaviour he was doing. When I was leaning towards this pup, the breeder just told me that this was a dog that would need a 'firm hand' and would probably constantly need to be 'reminded' who was in charge. All kinds of alarm bells went off in my head, 85lb male shepherd that I would need to constantly 'knock in the head', is not MY idea of a good time. I'm looking for drive but not THAT kind of drive/dominance. Nor do I think that I am the kind of handler that could adequately deal with what this guy would need. My failings not the pups.

I ended up getting 'second pick' a male which was more 'cooperative', he was plenty nippy, and energetic, but one the breeder thought would be more compatible with MY lifestyle and what I wanted to do with the dog (agility, NOT SchH).

My point here would be that although your pup may be an ideal canidate for someone who wanted to do something with all that drive or was experienced enough to handle him, but making a 'pet' out of a pup with all those tendencies might make both him and you a basket-case. The SchH people are looking for all that behaviour in a pup, that is what they need to be competive in their sport. The dog may be fine, but you may be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, with trying to make this dog something he isn't and may never be content with.

I wish you the best of luck and let us know how it is going.

Linda

Here's a good question....what kind of exercise does this puppy get? Australian Shepherds are extremely high drive dogs, they need something to keep them entertained and they need their mind to be worked. Playing with the bed skirt tells me he's not getting enough stimulation and he's figured out how to make his own fun.

Also in reading your first post, it says he started jumping around barking/biting and you scruffed him, he did it again, you scruffed him, he did it again, you scruffed him and he bit. Why would you continue scruffing him if it wasn't working? If he's going back to the behavior, obviously it wasn't seen as a big enough correction to him (or as a correction at all). Like someone else stated, if this was my puppy I would've shook his little world up when he got mouthy/growled the first time. I don't like growling dogs and I don't accept it. When my puppy first growled at me over a bone when she was a wee little thing, I shook her world up and we never have had another incident. This sounds to me like a puppy who's gotten to push the boundaries and needs a few good corrections. You need to get with a trainer in your area who's use to dealing with dominant dogs. Scruffing/tossing in his crate is not the right severity of correction for this puppy (as you have described him). He needs to be put in his place, and he needs to get his mind stimulated so he doesn't have all this extra energy to put into nipping and biting.

Just my 2 cents.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the replies. Marc and I just returned home from vacation. We had to put Blu in a kennel, which we HATED to do. The owner of the kennel he stayed in is also a breeder and trainer for police dogs, protection work etc. he happened to be at the kennel the day we stopped in to check it out. We had Blu with us and this trainer loved him. He said he would be a lot of work, but he was very impressed with his temperament and drive with what he could gather in our 45 min. meeting. Even though our meeting was brief it made Marc & I feel better. We intend on using him for training when Blu is 6 months of age. He said 14 wks. is too young.

He is getting better with the nipping/biting. He doesn't seem to bite hard as much, just a little mouthing (with teeth of course). There is little question though, that we have a hard pup with a strong prey drive. He's seems unfazed by verbal correction. We are going to get a prong collar. How old should he be before we start using it?

Thanks again!
Paige

Paige and Marc,
I am coming into this a little bit late, but I will add $.02.
From what you described in your original post, I do not think you scruffed the dog hard enough. My dog is just over 6 months old now. I have had to scruff him maybe 4 times since we got him. Here is the thing; you need to put the dog into avoidance - if you are not, you are not correcting hard enough. I HATE to do this, which is why I only do (did) it 4 or so times, but they really counted.
1) Dog growled at me when I moved his food bowl. He learned instantly that the food was mine to give and take away and growling over it brought a very bad thing. Dog went into avoidance (tail tucked, yelping and hollering and crouching). This is important - IF A DOG IS IN AVOIDANCE, YOU WILL KNOW IT! It will have no interest in fighting back. I left him alone for about a minute, then gave him reassurance. Then led him back to his food, he started eating again, and I picked the bowl up and took it, put it back, let him eat a bit, repeat. Nary a growl. I test this once or twice a week and have never had a problem again.
2) Rawhide chew - same as above. I went to take it, growl, wrath of god, give and take, now no problems, tested infrequently.
3) Again with a chew, but this time at my wife. She scruffed and shook, and when she let go the dog snapped at her. She left the chew with the dog and came to get me. We returned, dog chewing away happily. I explained to her that if she was going to correct the dog it had to be all the way. She went to take the chew, got the growl, and corrected the dog into avoidance. IT SUCKS - SHE HATED DOING IT - I HATED WATCHING IT - the dog has never growled at her again, or displayed any possesive attitude over food, toy, or treat to either of us, although we test him every once in a while to make sure the lesson stuck. It did / has. This was exactly the situation Paige was in, and could have led to a bite. Our dog was maybe 15-16 weeks at the time.
We have obedience trained our man, and gone through all the other typical puppy nonsense, and never used more than a harsh word or controlled (not popped) with a leash for any other behavior, and not needed to. Our dog still loves us. He is not submissive or scared, but he definitely understands that in the family pack he is #3.

I again stress - we did not use this technique more than 4 times. It sucks, but as Ed has said, a single good correction is worth 1000 nagging ones. If your dog is coming back at you immediately after a scruff shake, it was not in avoidance. The lesson did not sink in that you are the one person in the world, by god, that is not to be trifled with. That is the lesson the dog needs to get from a shake, but only, I think, if the lesson is really important (like growling at or biting the owner). If you shake a dog but not hard enough, and the dog has never learned that with you it is in a fight it cannot win, then it will come back at you. The older and bigger a dog gets, the harder (and more dangerous) it is to teach this lesson. A lot of dogs never need it, but a high drive dog with a dominant personality usually will at least once. Once the dog has learned unequivocally that you are the boss, it becomes much easier to train away from other negative behaviors, without ever having to resort to a hard physical correction again.

Sorry, let me add one more thing, and Paige, I am not coming after you with this at all.

From the original situation you had with your pup, I would not have advocated scruff shaking - it was being a typical pain in the ass puppy and at that point either going into the crate for a chill or some hard exercise would have been my reccomendation. The situation, in this case, should probably not have come to the point where you got the bite, but once you did, THAT action needed to be adressed, even though it sounds like your fault it got to that point. It is hard on the dog when it does something bad in a situation we have created, but if we never made mistakes there wouldn't be a reason for this forum. In the case of the growling over the food bowl that Marc described, this is where a hard correction would have been in order, or conversely, hand feeding for several weeks and then try again with the food bowl.

Good luck with your dog.

This sounds a lot like Sabian. When I tried basic training at 8-10 wks old, he would sit for the treat the first time. Afterwards he would ignore me, and bite to get the treat from my hand. He didn't bite like a pup, he drew blood nearly every time. I was on the floor once, and he wanted the treat, so he charged me and bit my nose. Took a nice chunk of skin. I know they say dominance begins later, but Sabian was pushing me out of the way and drawing blood since I got him. He would bite me to get out of his crate, and even now, he will push me out of the way going down the steps, through doors and getting out of the crate. At 12wk old, he attacked and killed my pet rabbit, opening her crate. They had been crated in the same room for 7 wks.
I started leading Sabian around the house on a lead and a martingale collar, and I corrected the stuffing out of him whenever neccessary. Later I got a pinch collar. periodically, he still latches onto me (he's a natural) and I mean really hard grips. The harder I pull, the harder he bites. Anyway, to make a long story short, I wouldn't count your pup out. At six months and 60lb, He's calmer than before and when he's not, the pinch collar is on. I can see progress.