Having worked Rotts and GSDs for a very long time,the one thing that I have learned is not to compare them,they are totally different in every respect from usage to training.
The Rott excells as a crowd control dog and makes a good patrol dog for certain types of work,the GSD has the advantage when it comes to pursuit over long distance as it will maintain its speed better,the Rott will run the same distance as any GSD but will be later getting their.Over short bursts there is no difference.
What has been found in the UK where patrol dogs differ from the US dogs in that they are seldon required to stop anyone,is that the presence of a Rott has far more effect with a crowd than a GSD does,not because it is better at the job but because of all the stories spread about them,the public view them as devil dogs.
Paul

Joeseph wrote - You are missing my point. It was said that rotts don't have the stamina of gsd's or mals. I replied that this is not necessarily true because stamina is not linked to breed or genetics, necessarily. It something that can be trained. Speed and agility are similar, but here genetics and structure play a larger part.

My reply - But I do understand I think its you that want to stack the deck. We just disagree I think it is a genetic, structure and stamina thing. The Cladsdale and QH example tried to illustrated that but lets just talk dog (the area we agree on) structure, Here what I see you saying if you found a 80lb rottie it would have the stamina of a 80lb GSD. I don't think so due to the heavier bone structure and still thicker more muscluar mass of the Rottie.

First of all it hard to find a 80lb full grown male Rottie and 2ndly 80lb male working GSd are normal or average weight.

Next thing is the form and structure thesis the GSD is built for the long haul, he a trouter and can go all day. The Rottie is a galloper and will run hard and powerful but not long, he/she does everything intensely and isn't afraid of any challenges.

Where as the Shepherd will think things out and repeat the finding when approaching the same problem. Sometime the Rottie is too impressed with its strength that it wants to go through rather then figure a easier way to get to the other side or the wall. But everything the Rottie does is intense.

This is what I've seen I have a Rottie female 93lbs and a Male GSD 95lb after a long day out training and hiking. The GSD can still run or fight if I ask, the fit and trim Rottie is dragging ass actually walking behind me on warm days. But everything she has done or tried was intense. The GSD is intense when things are serious or seem like a real threat, otherwise he just does it impress you.

But to be honest when both are fresh the Rottie is more athletic more spring, more bounce, more vicious (head swing when she gets the prey item). But not more serious, the GSD thinks its a job, the Rottie thinks its a kick ass game. If I had to chose a dog to protect me I'd take my GSD over my Rottie bitch. He more serious with new threats.

Don,
Whilst I agree with most of what you say,very few female Rotts are ever comparable to a male GSD,the male Rott is usually much more of a match in stamina and certainly in fight drive.
It is true that a Rott will go straight through an obstacle rather than find an easy way but this I dont think is due to not thinking,its more a case of why bother when I have the power to push through.
Paul

I don't totally disagree with what has been said by either of you. Paul, I agree with your analysis that over the long haul, the GSD will get there faster because it becomes a question of speed, which relates to structure, assuming equal stamina. Just like the difference between a 10 lb whippet and a 10 lb lhasa/yorkie/whatever. It doesn't have a thing to do with stamina. I also agree that on the flat sprint, there is no appreciable difference, at least that I have seen.

My whole thing is not that one dog is better than the other. My replies were related to performance and stamina as a sliding scale.

Don, I agree with Paul in that the comparison between your bitch and male is a little off. Apples and oranges. I'd like to compare, for chits and giggles, your male with my 84 lb full grown male. It would probably be a different picture, both in stamina and seriousness.

Joeseph - Don, I agree with Paul in that the comparison between your bitch and male is a little off. Apples and oranges. I'd like to compare, for chits and giggles, your male with my 84 lb full grown male. It would probably be a different picture, both in stamina and seriousness.


My reply -
I have friends with male Rotties almost everybody I know has a Rot. They are impressive dogs all are larger then 84lb, they run about 95-120lb very active and athletic. But not as athletic as my bitch, though they are stronger and have that male attitude. But I won't say apple and oranges a Rott is a Rott, she may not be as ballsy but she has that Rott disposition.

Most are trained in protection they are awesome dogs. But they are not GSD, though most are good smart, strong dogs they IMO don't train that easy, somedays they just don't want to or they wanta do it their way. So bark and hold may become bark and tackle. Though I wouldn't want to be caught in the owners house or have them send their dog after me (bottom line no man can out run any protect dog) I see why they are popular they impressive. I still perferr GSD they please just to Please. They enjoy working and its not a chore. I like the different personalites of each breed, but have my perfernce as you do.

Your 84lb Male would be a sight to see and compare, have you done any long search and apprehend? So you agree that the Rottie is lazy sometimes, which is the gripe you hear sometimes.

Paul wrote - Don,there has never been a restriction of working Rotts in the UK,I dont breed,just select Rotts from available dogs.
The reason is simply that the UK police dont spend money on dogs to the extent of being able to import and because of this there is a shortage of any usable dogs for police work.

My reply - Maybe it was some E-mail that I read about the UK banning the practice of any oragnized protection dog training, for citizen.
And their active breeding aggression out of the GSd as we have done with the Dobermann.

Are you saying this is incorrect or is it that only police/LE organization are Ok'd to train police dogs in LE/crowd control situations in the UK?

Don,in reply to your comment.
Are you saying this is incorrect or is it that only police/LE organization are Ok'd to train police dogs in LE/crowd control situations in the UK?

There is no restriction in law on anyone owning a bite trained dog in the UK but hopefully most people have the sense not to,we dont have the problems that you have in the states and few criminals are violent.
There is a considerable risk to owning such a dog due to the Dangerous Dogs Act and the fact that most of the public would be uncapable of handling such a dog safely.
I personally would never supply such a dog to a private person.
Paul

PAUL WOOTON.......I HAVE READ THE REPLIES TO MY ORIGINA MESSAGE. THE MAIN ROLE FOR THE DOGS IN MY UNIT IN STAFORDSHIRE UK, ARE PUBLIC ORDER AND FIREARMS WORK. THE HUGE AREA WE COVER WITH SUCH A SMALL UNIT MEANS THAT WE ARE USUALLY AT LEAST 30 MINUTES AWAY FROM ANY CRIME SCENE, AND OUR SUCCESS FROM TRACKS OR SEARCHING ARE MINIMAL. IT SEEMS THAT ROTTWEILERS MAY WELL BE THE BEST DOG FOR US AT THIS TIME. WE HAVE ONE ROTTWEILER ON THE UNIT AT PRESENT AND HE IS DEVELOPING EXTREMELY WELL IN ALL AREAS. YOU COULD NOT FAULT HIS DRIVE OR STAMINA. MY OWN G.S.D IS ABOUT TO RETIRE AND I AM ON THE LOOKOUT FOR A NEW DOG FOR A COURSE TO START IN JANUARY. MYSELF AND THE TRAINING STAFF ARE KEEN TO LOOK AT ROTTWEILERS. WE GENERALLY RELY ON DONATED DOGS BUT WILL PAY FOR THE RIGHT DOG. YOUR EARLIER REPLY STATED THAT YOU SUPPLY ROTTWEILERS. COULD YOU SEND ME DETAILS PLEASE.

Steve,already in touch with Steve Bristow and Bob Smith,good to know you are one of the Staffordshire crew,they are a good lot.
Paul