I am looking to purchase a good quality hidden sleeve. I currently have a hidden sleeve that we are using, but it tends to bunch up on the arm easily.....not the best quality sleeve I have seen, and much thicker than I anticipated.....it is tough to get under even large and baggy clothing.

Can anyone recommend a good quality hidden sleeve around $75 or less, and where I could find it? I realize you get what you pay for.....but this is what I can afford right now. I have to get Christmas for the kids......I do not think the wife will be happy if Santa brings a $100+ hidden sleeve to the baby...... :rolleyes:

Thoughts and comments are appreciated.

How about an old firehose and some duck tape LOL. I'm joking, sort of. The syntec undersleave that Ray Allen makes is a pretty good one. I'm sure that our host (Ed) has some good undersleeves. The firehose trick is something that we do periodically.(Not for the inexperienced decoy!) Some may disagree but dogs learn to recognize undersleaves as well as big bulky sleeves with a bite bar. I do believe in undersleeves but I question whether we're really fooling them or not. Nevertheless it is good to mix up the bite surfaces.

Hidden equipment is good for the first bite of the training session only and that is if you have placed a clean and unrecognizable piece of clothing over it.
That means chuck the old green army jacket.
I recomend that hidden sleeves be used very rarely and only to test your training. As a working sleeve they are useless.

Mr. Sheldahl,

I think that is pretty much the direction we have been going with the hidden sleeve. We do use it as a general sleeve (exposed) simply because it is so bulky and difficult to use under clothing....come to think of it....it has only ever been actually used under clothing twice....I really don't even consider this particular sleeve to be a hidden sleeve......it's just not....

The only reason I want a better quality hidden sleeve is so we can use it to test how the training is coming....I can see definate improvement over the past 2 weeks since going back to the basics.....the grip has certainly increased......bottom line is I do not want the dog to get equipment fixated....the hidden sleeve allows us to determine whether or not she "gets it"....that it is about the bite....not the sleeve......with the current hidden sleeve I have, I would be better off using it as a general purpose sleeve.

Kevin, I'd love for some of my handlers, one in particular to see your quote regarding hidden equipment. He has heard speakers at seminars harp on getting away from sleeves and seems to think that the undersleeve and bite coat is the only way to go. As a result we do a lot more muzzle than we have in the past but I get a little tired of defending my position that we are dealing with masters of association and we aren't fooling them. There is reason why I'm calling the shots LOL. Sorry for the rant.

Drew, it's refreshing to hear that you have taken the advice of experts here and gone back to the basics. So often we come across handlers/trainers who are afraid to go back and revisit the basics.

As I am sure you've read Howard, I tend to get a little ansy.....I have to learn as much as the dog does... and the dog seems to be more patient about it....it is not fair! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I was getting frustrated with some training sessions I had a few months back.....posted my questions.......heeded the advice....changed helpers, and vou-la, a different dog. In 2 1/2 weeks of basic work (bite) the dog has done a 180. I contribute this to those basics, and the decoys. These new helpers I have been using are as passionate as me.....and they are pretty good actors........it makes a world of difference. I complained that the dog was overshooting the helper on chase downs......the bite was not full.....not as intense.....etc. We went back to back ties....and tug maintenance, etc. In this little time, the dog is now hitting the bite the first time on chase downs, and with such force she is knowcking people to the ground. The bites are now going through the sleeve.....leaving some fun mouse bites for the helpers to show off....she is actually hitting the helpers so hard that we all tend to ooooooh and ahhhhhh, as well as cringe a little when we hear the impact.....it is really a pleasure to watch.....especially since I am in control <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So realistically, I am intrigued by the fire hose idea...and I think I could get my hands on an old one.....any other thoughts on a hidden sleeve?

A good helper can use a sleeve, and still keep the dog civil without the use of a hidden sleeve. Just have to know how to work the dog. Too many people use the sleeve as the reward, rather than the fight as the reward. We often tease the dog with the sleeve and throw it aside, the dog never bothers to even look away. He knows what he wants, the person. The sleeve should be an extension of the helper. I agree a hidden sleeve is only good once. Good helper work in conjunction with the muzzle, builds a fantastic dog.