My working line GSD is 17 weeks and has quite a bit of spirit. She's had only a few corrections (scruff of neck) and has resopnded well to motivational methods. She has the basics such as come, sit, stay, down, bark on command, heel, bring and she knows "NO". But she is driven, headstrong and distractable. During actual training she is generally well behaved, but at other times she trys to impose her will. For example, at times she pulls hard on the lead to try and get at something that smells nice'n nasty or to go toward another dog. She still jumps up on people, although not on me. Light pops with the lead and flat collar are ineffective when she's in hyper mode. I feel the time has come that she should have better manners, but I don't want to make her submissive. So on one hand there is the practical aspect of controling her on lead, but also the larger relationship issue of teaching her that she must behave well at all times. Also, she knows when I don't have food in hand and feels obedience is optional. Is it time for a puppy prong and some degree of compulsion or should I just wait out this puppy wildness and continue to work on the relationship with positive methods? At what point do you demand more from a puppy?
John

Hi John:

I don't know about when to ask more from a puppy, but I will respond to your comment about she knows when you have food and when you don't.

I've taken the philosophy of the 'never-ending' cookie with my pup (now 21 weeks). Any time he is out, I have cookies in my pocket so at any time I can call him or ask something of him and be able to reward immediately. So he just assumes that there is ALWAYS the possibility of treats and associates that with me. When I'm not specifically asking something of him, he doesn't hang around and wait for me to produce a cookie, but I always get a response when I call him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Linda

Linda, I try to do the same thing. It's probably more about context than food, actually. For example, we do the recall exercise where a helper holds her to build frustration while I call her. She comes like a rocket. When I can simulate that context even without a helper she still comes like a rocket. But then in a different situation she might just look at me as if to say "you can't make me." Ah, she's just a puppy and I've got a lot to learn too. I really appreciate the response.
John

If its a pup your training for schutzhund I wouldnt worry about things like manners.(other than biting me) I would be concerned with building its drive up and maintaing it while working on obed or whatever else. Driving into a young sport dog pups head that its not ok to be close to me(jumping on you) can show up in other places later. Like a dog that insist on doing a sit front 3 feet in front of you on a recall, or a dog that doesnt feel comfortable and relaxed in your arms while holding the sleeve/tug.(not helping the calm grip) This is just my opinion.

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If its a pup your training for schutzhund I wouldnt worry about things like manners.(other than biting me) I would be concerned with building its drive up and maintaing it while working on obed or whatever else. Driving into a young sport dog pups head that its not ok to be close to me(jumping on you) can show up in other places later. Like a dog that insist on doing a sit front 3 feet in front of you on a recall, or a dog that doesnt feel comfortable and relaxed in your arms while holding the sleeve/tug.(not helping the calm grip) This is just my opinion.

David, She is a schutzhund prospect and this has been my philosophy up until now––I don't want to make mistakes that will lessen her drives. At some point though, she will have to understand that obeying is not optional and that distractions are no excuse. As I've been reading and considering this for the last couple of days I've realized I should limit my expectations to the area of influence. I'll continue to err on the conservative side, but she's hard enough to shake off (or ignore) the light corrections (never given a real hard correction) and it may be about time to introduce a puppy prong in a limited way. That way things like straining on the end of the leash should be self correcting to a degree. Ultimately, I have to sort out what kills drive and spirit and what's just good sound training. Advice appreciated.
John