I've searched for an answer to this and unless I'm completely blind, it hasn't been specifically addressed. If it has, please point me in the right direction.

My doby/pit mix, Kelly, will carry her "tug" - a burlap "rope" - and run in a circle with me OFF LEASH, but when she is on a 15 foot lead she drops the tug and waits for me to pick in up.

When she is offleash she has a nice grip - a little crooked because of the prey item, but firm. When onleash she spits out the tug right away if I'm not tugging or holding it.

When offleash she will come into my arms nicely. When onleash she drops the tug long before she starts running.

So, my questions are:
1) am I focusing too much on onleash vs. offleash?
2) is this my fault for doing so much offleash obedience?
3) how do I fix it?

When a leash means a lot I have to ask how the obedience was done. I also don't get why you are running in circles off leash. who is your decoy? You or someone else. I have not watched the videos, but I am not a big proponent of unskilled people working green dogs. Sure everyone has to start somewhere, but usually under supervision. That or be prepared to screw it up. It takes a while to know what you are seeing in the dog, and even then.... I would ask Ed and Cindy. I remember somewhere you lived close. Maybe they would watch and give suggestions.

Jeff,
Obedience was done keeping her on the smallest possible collars and leads, moving to offleash work. I used a prong collar for a couple days, then went back and forth. She rarely needs it.

I've worked with her for about a month - I'm thinking not so much as protection work, but drive building for more obedience, assistance - she might have capaciity for seizure alert - so I'll be sending her off to a friend that has a seizure disorder that used to have a seizure alert dog - mybe just good enthusiasm in trick training. I'll see where her abilities go, but I think it's important for you to know that I'm not necessarily training her for protection.

I'll definitely ask Ed/Cindy - I just wanted to bounce it off a few people first to see if I missed something elementary, or if it's a handler problem, not a dog problem.

I'm starting to think it's related to her retrieving obsession - although I don't know if it's approriate to handle it the same way.

In the DVD it says that if the dog drops the prey object to go back into drive building. Which after some repetition in short sessions didn't ssem to make a difference - but time will tell.

I know that Kelly is expecting me to tell her to go pick up her tug. I haven't for fear it might mess up any training for the future.

Anyway the offleash vs onleash seems really wierd to me...

O.K. so I must be having a day. What do you mean by "smallest possible collars and leads?"

Anne,
Try attaching a light line to the prey object, so when she drops it you can make it "escape" . she will learn that even though she is on the leash a firm grip is required or the prey will get away...

see if that helps..

Jeff, Anne does live close <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I will get a chance to talk to her in person about this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I remember being a billion miles from anyone that could help. I remember it all too well. I still like a second set of eyes when I am doing decoy work. It is my own insecurities maybe, but it is nice when they saw what you saw, so you don't question the things that dogs do at super high speeds. not to mention when you get bashed real good or pinched, it is easy to miss stuff when you are flinching. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I think that the lead has a lot to do with why things are going bad. Best guess at least.

Heh Heh Heh! Problem Solved!

I took Kelly out at night (just now) onlead. She couldn't see it and acted just as if she were off lead. She ran in a circle with me, holding on to the tug and came into my arms nicely - she did drop it then a couple times, but at least she was holding on to it long enough to come into m arms.

The 15 foot lead is bright blue 3/4" round rope. When I do obedience on grass, I use a 1/4" wide green patterned cat leash that blends in. When I do obedience on pavement, I use a 1/4" wide black cat leash.

By the smallest possible, I mean that the collars and leads I buy usually have photos of cats, maltese and chiwawas on the labels <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> We do check them for strength before we buy! I've found on the collars that usually the material and the clasp/buckle are sturdy, but the d-rings bend - but since the entire collar is so narrow, I clip the leash around the width of it. I haven't had any issues with leash strength. The collars/leads are about 1/4" wide and prong collars are the small size.

A little note here - I have a totally different set of equipment for aggressive or simply huge/powerful dogs.

Many times I have a similar deal. I am having an issue and I go to show it to another club member, and poof the dand dog doesn't do it. Of 'course in another stroke of genius I am so startled by the fact that it was correct, my timing for the reward is bad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Hopefully it sticks for you.

Well, it's either only training after dark or finding a 15 foot 1/4" wide green patterned lead (like that will happen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />