Maggie - Yes, I'm just about to start the switch from a kibble diet to a raw diet. Two weeks was the answer I was looking for. Thanks.

Jan - The funny thing is I went out and bought some of the digestive enzymes with probiotics for dogs and was reading through the ingredients and noticed L. Acidopholis and couldn't rememeber what it was. Then I'm driving home and I remember that it was the bacteria found in yogurt. So I say to myself "Self, (and I knew it was me cuz I recognized the voice!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) why not just use yogurt?? Ah well, I got the stuff now so I'll use it. Couldn't hurt.

Connie - the njboxers site is great!! Very informative for us newbies to the raw diet. I asked my original question because I noticed (unless I missed something) that many manufacturer sites weren't very specific as to when it could be discontinued. Most advise keeping your dog on them which I disagree with because, if they are healthy, the dog's bodies will compensate with the production of additional enzymes shortly after the switch from kibble to raw.

I know for a fact that when I switch Riddick over "cold turkey" he will have softer poops. Always happens when he tries something new. It straightens itself out after a few days but if I can avoid it entirely then great.

I noticed the one quote you provided mentioned using the supplement for three weeks. I'm starting to think that the timing comes down to how your dog is doing during the switch. I'll keep an eye him during the switch and adjust accordingly.

Thanks for your help folks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Kurt

Mike - sorry, I meant to respond to your post as well.

I agree with your approach. Do some research, get the basics and then wing it and do what's best for your individual dog.

What I have found is that the raw diet is like dog training in general. There is no one way that is right and it depends on your dog.

Our last dog died of cancer. Was it because of the food she was eating? Who knows?? But with our new guy, whatever I can do to tip the odds in his favor for a long life then I'll give it a shot.

So far the plan is to have Riddick on Vitamin E and salmon oil. I have been considering kelp, which I understand is excellent, and a glucosamine/chondroitin powder.

Does anyone know if dogs can get enough glucosamine/chondroitin from the raw diet without having to supplement it??

Good news is that I convinced my wife to make the switch!! She's a nurse and has these big phobias about germs etc. Are all nurses like that!?!? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

.......Does anyone know if dogs can get enough glucosamine/chondroitin from the raw diet without having to supplement it??

Did you mention the dog's age and health?

The glucosamine (or glucosamine/chondroitin) is primarily an osteoarthritis (and some other degenerative joint ailments) treatment, unless there's some new use for it I haven't read about yet.

I've had great success with it on senior dogs. It takes a few weeks or months to start seeing the full effect, but my dog who died last year (of cancer) went from being unable to manage stairs or getting onto the sofa to being able to do both within a couple of months on glucosamine. Of course, that's anecdotal, and I'm sure that not every dog does as well as that. But I'm a believer. I take it, too.

But if this is a healthy young dog, then I can't see any reason for glucosamine supplements.

Connie - he's 10mths old and hips/joints are fine.

I agree, the glucosamine is primarily used as an osteoarthritis treatment. But, can it not also be used as a preventative measure as well?

Some of the articles I have been reading, relating to glucosamine use in humans, seem to indicate that it may also have a preventative effect as well. I am, however, not that well schooled in it's effects to make definitive response.

I just did a quick check on the Syn-Flex site, it's a commercial site so you have to take it for what it's worth, and it stated that it is being used as a preventative measure by some Greyhound racers and Iditarod sled teams. They could be sponsored though so who knows!?!? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ed sells it and has stated that he uses it. I wonder if he uses it as a preventive measure or as treatment and what effects he has seen if any??

 Quote:

I just did a quick check on the Syn-Flex site, it's a commercial site so you have to take it for what it's worth, and it stated that it is being used as a preventative measure by some Greyhound racers and Iditarod sled teams. They could be sponsored though so who knows!?!?

Yes, some vet researchers say it can't hurt and might help. It's cheap. Its side effects, as far as I know, are almost nill. I still hesitate......maybe I'll change my mind after I think it over more.

Anyway, from
http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=474

QUOTE: The wear and tear that comes with age can contribute to the development of osteoarthritis, so this disease is also commonly seen in middle-aged dogs, especially amongst large breeds. Dr. Byron points out that chronic osteoarthritis can cause lameness, discomfort and pain that can affect the quality of an animal's life. ......Once osteoarthritis is diagnosed, Dr. Byron recommends not only treating the symptoms with NSAIDs, but also using glucosamine supplementation to slow the degradative processes and minimize damage to the cartilage.

Glucosamine is made by the body and is not abundant in the diets of dogs and horses. Dietary supplementation can help provide higher, therapeutic amounts to both dogs and horses. There are many over-the-counter products specially formulated for animals, all with different ingredient combinations. Dr. Byron recommends products that also contain chondroitin sulfate, since it works synergistically with glucosamine. He also recommends reading product labels carefully and following label directions, since products vary.

Dr. Byron points out that glucosamine supplementation can help slow progression of osteoarthritis if used in the early stages of the disease, but for advanced arthritis it may not be as helpful, since damage to the cartilage is already severe.

Although clinical research has not yet confirmed ideal dosages for glucosamine supplementation as an arthritis preventive, Dr. Byron explains that using a supplement prior to the onset of osteoarthritis indications is more likely to help than to hurt.

Aside from some mild gastrointestinal signs in horses, glucosamine has very few side effects and little potential for toxicity.

"I think it may be good to supplement an active animal earlier in life, before signs of the disease develop. If an owner is willing to put up with a little added expense, it may be worth minimizing the discomfort and expense in the long run."

For more information about glucosamine supplementation for your pet, consult your veterinarian. END

It's definitely one of those things that fall under the personal choice column.

It appears the use of it as a preventative measure is still up in the air as far as human consumption goes as well.

As an aside, a friend of mine had a GSD that developed osteoarthritis of the spine. I can't speak to the pain the dog may/may not have been in but I sure felt sorry for it as it's back end started seizing up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />