This topic seems closest to my question. Hope I am posting in the right place!
Griffin is 8 months old and will be doing SAR. He needs to bark to indicate a find. He doesnt bark so I have been working on barking with him.

I found a trainer and we backtied Griffin and teased him with his tug. He is doing very well and understand and anticipates the game. I am working on my own now and have a little problem to work out. Our basic routine is tie him with tug out of reach, I let go of the collar, he lunges and barks for his tug as I am releasing him, very quickly he switches his attention/frustration on me and bites me. We work for a few barks, he gets the tug. I stand by him and hold his neck and stroke him, praising quietly. When I want him to out, I lift up on his collar until he lets go. He anticipates this, lets go quickly and lunges at tug and me, since I am usually closer, he gets me almost before I can let go of the collar.

I am not correcting or commenting so as not to decrease drive. Can I do anything differently to not get bit (besides Move Faster!!!)? Am I doing something wrong? He is getting very good at barking and hasnt drawn blood yet (mainly getting clothes). Not sure it there is really a problem or this is just the way it goes!

Thanks for any advice!

Jennifer

I would back tie the dog, get out in front of him, excite him to bark and then give a quick food reward for the bark. You may not need to excite him at all. he may associate the back-tie with barking and lunging already. Back up again and when he barks, give the food reward. i don't see the need to encourage the bite when the dog is doing SAR. also, stay outside of the tie-out so you don't get bit. When the dog gets the food reward it will switch the drive and calm the dog.

Scott,
If the dog works for play then that is what you use, doing drive work with a SAR dog is not the same as doing bite work.

As far as not getting bit handspeed seems to be the key. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I am curious what the SAR people would say about a pup that frustrates that much. I would like it, but seems like it might be melt-down time in SAR. That would be a big factor for me. I have a pup that frustrates that fast, but when he gets frustrated, he can't find his food bowl in front of him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jennifer, the training I do with my SAR trained dog is the same as I do the Hold and Bark for Schutzhund. BOTH are motivational, meaning no corrections. The dog is in front of me or the helper/victim and doesn't get his kong (SAR reward) or the bite (Sch reward) until he's cleanly barking without contact on me or the helper/victim. Don't reward you dog for rough behaviour. Reward only for correctly barking and indicating the "find". You don't have to be within range for him to grab you.

I worked him a little differently this morning and realized that he thinks the lunging gets the reward (or he just isnt a barker at all).

I am rewarding with the tug because that has turned out to be the love of his life. (Also we will be doing urban/disaster work and they dont want food rewards) I was actually concerned about his drive until I figured out that the key was tugging, not just throwing and retrieving. He seems to have a lot of prey drive--if it doesnt move, he gets calm, he still wants it, but wont fight or bark to get it.

Today I took out his tug and he leapt up and grabbed my arm--this time I got mad and yelled at him and decided to work him with out anything to pull and lunge against. I put the tug in front of us and held him around the chest and asked him to 'pas auf'. He wanted to leap and twist but not bark. He finally stood still and then barked and I released him to get his tug. If he calmed down too much, I kicked it to wake him up again. He still really wants to leap and lunge, but seemed to get that the bark gets the tug. What are your opinions of this 'technique' for getting a bark instead of lunging? Any better ones?

Our problem is that if I am too calm or the 'prey' doesnst excite him, he calms down and will do some obedience to get the tug but doesnt bark. The barking seems to go hand in hand with the lunging and biting.

Thanks for the advice so far!!

Jennifer