A rope or leash attached to the sleeve! I would appreciate some feedback on this. Its my understanding that some train with this, I havent seen it done but I believe the helper plays a little tug with the dog after he slips the sleeve{ I guess} anyway does anybody here use this in their bite work? What specifically are you trying to build? At what stage do you do it, and when do you stop.. .or maybe is there a specific type dog you use this technique on. Just the {how to} and {what for} is what Im asking. Any feed back ,for or against would be great. Thanks

In my experience, this is used for defensive dogs that may need to work with a little more prey drive. My older female (3 years old) has not had much preliminary prey work and when she works with the helper it is very serious for her. She bites the sleeve no problem but when he slips it, she immediately drops it. By keeping a line on it, he can keep it "alive" from a distance without putting too much stress on her and she will hold it a little better instead of spitting it out immediately. Since she is being trained for sport work, we want her to learn to fight to win the sleeve and hold it calmly.

I have also seen this used with younger or unsure dogs to put the prey item at a distance from the helper so it's not so intimidating for them.

Thanks. So its not a step in bitework that you should include on all dogs bite development ,but just on specific dogs. Do you think it would be a good thing to do a little bit with all dogs,or is there no real point?

One thing to remember with training dogs is that they are all different.

With that said, I think Ed does mention this as an intermediate step for going from pup tug to sleeve on young dogs. Some dogs need the step to help them identify the sleeve as a new prey item. My young dog didn't. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Of course, I think he has "got jute?" tattoed on his little black forehead... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i have used this technique a few times when having trouble transitioning a dog from the tug to a sleeve. but as said above, they are all different, so use what works with your dog.

Cindy nailed it.

You can use it for a lot of reasons, like transition work, prey work for overly defensive dogs, whatever. . .

The basic idea is that you are maintaining the pressure on the sleeve (little pulling) so the dog keeps it in his mouth by reflex or desire for the prey. Not necessarily because they are defensive, but they lack some natural reflexes like grip etc.

I always use a line on a tug to work grip development, I like to do that. So as a natural progression with younger dogs I have done it with dogs that had trouble either keeping a grip or dropping the sleeve in a carry or other situation.

Beings that as a protection group we have a lot of dogs that don't genetically have the grip going, I have used this alot with other breeds. The Presa that my friend owns needed this hard core. Wouldn't bother holding the sleeve once caught till he realized it was still alive and it could get away or was still moving.(this was in early development, and under no defensive pressure) This lead into prey guarding to further reinforce the attraction to the sleeve. Later this was a defensive dog that also needed continued use of the line to give space and keep directing focus to the sleeve.

It really helped with his grip and understanding his job. bite and hold on till out.

I had ofcourse used this in the beggining stages of bite work in young dogs as away to transition from the sack or puppy sleeve.I could come up with reasons it could be used in dogs that are biting the sleeve with a helper but I wanted to know more specificaly what the reasons behind it was. What Cindy said makes alot of since and what VC says does too, although in getting a dog to want to keep the sleeve in his mouth after the bite I had always gone straight to gaurding the sleeve but in the future I will add the step with the rope attached to it.
Thanks