Hi, this is my first post as I am a new member and boy do I need help!
I have 2 Westies both 4 years old, a dog and a bitch (both neutered)and I have recently bought a Great Dane puppy dog who is now 14 weeks old. I've been looking on the web at how to best introduce them and found Eds' site and 'oh my god what have I done?'
I have been extremely lucky in the fact that my 2 Westies have always got on well (the bitch being the dominant one of the two) and not had any real trouble with them.
I 'thought' I was definitely pack leader as they do as they're told and follow me around like little lost sheep most of the time. Boy am I wrong!!!
I read Eds' article on introducing a third dog and the pup is crated and the 2 adults have wagged their tails at him and licked eachother between the bars, with no aggression shown whatsoever. The 2 adults have always been crated together and when the pup's out they have started to bark constantly, (completely ignoring me). Anyway I thought the time had come to introduce them more closely so I started with my male Westie first on neutral ground. They sniffed, I praised, then the pup threw up his paw to play and my Westie went beserk and lunged at him. Worst thing was my pup had a go back. I started to walk them together and they were fine but if the adult dog faced him he started having a go at the pup again.
The next introduction with my adult bitch was even worse. As soon as she saw him she lunged at him really aggressively and would snap at him if she got close when walking.
It's as if the 2 of them are saying "we've been waiting for this". They completely ignored me and were not the dogs I thought I knew. Also, the 2 of them have started to squabble more between themselves and the dog is no longer 'the submissive one' and has a go back at the bich.
I haven't tried introducing again as I'm wondering whether it will spoil the Dane puppy's temperament to other dogs.
I know this is 100% my doing and fault and would love to make things work. I feel sorry for my 2 Westies as it seems like I've really messed their heads up. But please don't tell me to get rid of the Dane as he's fantastic in every respect.
I have the luxury of being a full time house mum/wife so if there is someone who can help me overcome these problems I would be forever grateful. I also do have the space to keep them separate but would love them to be able to interact with eachother.
I'm sorry for the length of this but thought the more that you knew about the situation the better and I will honestly answer any questions you might want to ask.
Thankyou so much, Lisa

Is there anybody out there who can help please?

 Quote:

Is there anybody out there who can help please?

I think that Ed Frawley or Will Rambeau or Cindy Easton Rhodes or another of this forum's very experienced trainers will help here...........I'm not experienced enough with this issue. Meanwhile, here's a long thread to read:
http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4155799/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

I'm not an expert on pack dynamics by any stretch, but I have managed a pack of aggressive dogs (new rescue dog every couple months) for about 2 years.

You don't need to give up any of your dogs, but you do need to follow Ed's Groundwork article to a "T" with all your dogs.

Keep your pup seperate from your other 2 dogs for at least 2 (more) weeks for their nerves to settle and so they can get used to the sights, smells and sounds of each other.

Crate train your 2 older dogs if they are not already crate trained.

Create a strict daily schedule for all the dogs that addresses feeding (each in his/her own crate), going outside seperately, and training.

Because your pup is going to grow quickly, it is probably best to not allow your 4 yr old female to keep her current dominant role. As she feels threatened by his play and his size, it would create a situation in which your pup could be attacked. (You do not want a dog vs. dog aggressive Great Dane!) You may want to look into getting a dominant dog collar for her.

Ed's 2-DVD set Basic Obedience may help you as well.

How well were the 2 Westies socialized with other dogs BEFORE you got your new pup. If they previously always played and got on well with hundreds of other dogs you've met while out and about, or at friends homes, or relatives, or in training, then I'm betting this may work out well in the end with alot of management.

If, on the other hand, it's really just been the 2 Westies with you, and NOT alot of socialization or getting used to other dogs, I think you may be in trouble. IF that's the situation, they didn't ask for a puppy in the home, YOU didn't prepare them over the past 4 years to get along with other dogs, and you may need to either keep the dogs separate for the rest of their lives. Or I would probably ask the breeder if they would take the Great Dane puppy back. Not the dogs fault they are in this situation and would be horrible if any of them were injured.

Here are some sites with infor that may help:

http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0182.htm

http://www.petplace.com/article.aspx?id=1972

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_SocializationAdultDog.php

http://www.tarheelcanine.com/SibRiv.doc

http://www.siriusdog.com/articles/article298.htm

Never ever leave the small dogs alone with the big dog unsupervised, I speak form experience, no matter how well
they eventually get on, always crate them seperatley if you are not going to be able to watch them...I keep my 3 sheps outside, they have supervised interaction with my
2 min pin's if they come in it is always under strict
supervision, the "little guns" don't realise how big the sheps are, and would be happy to take them on, if allowed,
so any boisterous nonsense is not allowed indoors.
Most times the sheps act civilised but every now and then
temptation to play rough sets in, we introduced ours to the sheps slowly over a 4 week period of short interactions, just letting them sniff them etc, now they are all ok and don't try and hunt the little ones anymore, the problem was they were so small just 400 g so it was no use trying the crate option <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Your two westies have probably formed a pack, and now your introducing another, they initially may see him as a threat, so showing them that they are still
important is essential feed them first greet them first,
its hard as a natural tendency is to focus on the new arrival and make him feel welcome..I am sure it will work out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi:
I second that opinion about groundwork. I have/had problems with the youngest dog in the house wanting to be the top dog, and even to me, which I would never have believed had I not been told me some wise folks. I instituted ground work on the dog, and she is much better. My main problem is that she does NOT like me to work on, handle her while the others are near, and if I rebuke her for something, she will look at another dog, planning to give them the what-for, - as I made her look weak to the others (by handling her etc). In fact it raised it's ugly head this morning. I had my dog do a down, and she instantly looked over at the other dog and got a stare going. I had her stay down, and then released her and she ran RIGHT over to the other dog, with her mouth agape but restrained, biting/growling at the other dog (who was good as gold and did not get into it). I then put her in her crate, and had her down for long enough to break her thoughts on the other dog. When I released her out of her crate, she didn't even look at that dog. It is a pain, but I let it go on way too long, and now I have to continue working with her, and never letting her think she is tops in any manner. She is a great dog; she just needs to remember that I am top female in this house <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Julie

Thankyou for all of your advice on this matter. My Westies are currently crated together, so should I separate them and do everything with them separate? Also answering the question of how they are with other dogs, I will be honest in saying they are fine when off leash or when they are aware that I am not close to them but if I am by their side they are a little aggressive. I am in the land of the 'reward, reward, reward' type of training where they frown upon correction or discipline (the U.K.) but have no problems with it myself and the trainer I used to go to with my Westies told me that they respond like this when on leash because they feel more dominant as they think 'mum' will protect them. Whether this is correct or not I don't know.
I will follow Eds' groundwork to a 'T' and my final questions are if I discourage my bitch from being the dominant one should the dogs be equal in my pack or do I enrol the Dane as top dog? and how can I stop this growling at one another and barking constantly when the pups out?

 Quote:

...the trainer I used to go to with my Westies told me that they respond like this when on leash because they feel more dominant as they think 'mum' will protect them.

That's one way to look at it... the other way to look at it is that the dogs know they are restrained by a leash so feel more threatened when another dog (or person?) approaches because they lack freedom of choice. Does this aggrsesion also exist when they are heeling by your side off-leash?