Greetings,

I have a 14wk old male Aussie Shepard who is doing quite well, but my wife and I are having trouble with a couple things. We have Ed's videos, have a crate, lots of toys he likes and he gets plenty of attention and exercise, but while we realize that puppies are mouthy by nature, there are times when he just goes overboard attacking our feet, pants, hands, whatever he can access. He doesn't bite hard on skin, and often shows what I believe is inhibition, backing of on a body part when it is in his mouth.

The responses when he is doing is baby gator routine have included the bitter apple application (even after stuffing the soaked cotton ball in his mouth a few times, he seems only mildly put-off by this, especially when his drive is up). We sometimes crate him, which will eventually lead to some calming down, but we still need to excercise him and he often spends the first part of his walks attacking our pant legs. I have also taken him by the scruff and pinned him with a good shake. But while this can take him down a few notches, he often is very persistent at trying to mouth/lightly bite my hand/arm/sleeve while I am doing it, even when I then give him another good shake (perhaps not good enough), he often keeps up the same behavior that I am trying to correct him for. At this age, I already have mixed feelings about doing this...am I just being impatient? Is being more forceful called for? Is this a dominance problem or is this just being hard (or just a puppy)?

Thanks much...

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.....he just goes overboard attacking our feet, pants, hands, whatever he can access. .......

I haven't had a young puppy myself, but until the puppy-experienced forum members give you their suggestions, I thought you might want to look at this article about mouthy puppies:
http://www.leerburg.com/no-art.htm

If you have herding people in your area, it would help to go and talk to them. I have an Aussie, and he is wierd about corrections in general. Some he gets, others he has decided that the punishment is worth the crime. I would definately talk to Aussie people about this. It took me a while to figure my guy out. The one thing that I can say is that if we are attending herding classes, and working him he is a different dog. Not nearly as neurotic and wierd. I can take and run him and not have the same affect. Same goes for agility. Only the herding works well. He is a freak for sure.

>>am I just being impatient? Is being more forceful called for? Is this a dominance problem or is this just being hard (or just a puppy)?

Please don't take this the wrong way but I have to be direct...You have by the sounds of it...a NICE working Aussie...You need to understand the breed better. The properly bred ones are a high drive herding dog...Your pup is exhibiting traits he/she was bred for.

Sounds like he needs an appropriate 'outlet' for his drives. What you consider enough exercise may not be the type of exercise that pup needs.

Did you ever wonder why SOOOoo many Aussies are in Agility, Flyball or Herding...and why so many old working Los Racosa (sp?) lines were able to do Sch very well? Energy and certain lines carry an 'edge'--enough to do a protection sport...

To be honest...it's NICE to hear of an Aussie like yours...There's not that many left. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Sounds like you have a really nice pup! Please take your time and get to know YOUR pup and the Breed in general.

All the best!

B

Thanks for the posts above (and while there are herds in SE Idaho, I am not sure there are herding classes (but something to look into)).

I don't wonder why so many Aussie's are so strong in agility competition and the like, since I did a great deal of research on the breed before getting him. You may be right that more outlets are the answer and that we have a nice Aussie pup (we like to think so, and we work on doing more with him regularly). The focus of my query was on taking him down and his response. I've read Ed's articles, but wanted some views about this particular case.

Thanks again, and keep it coming...I appreciate the discussion...Matt

As the owner of an EXTREMELY hyperactive Border Collie x I can tell you that often it is just a personality quirk. I rescued her so I wasn't able to expierence her as a pup, but as an adult she is manic. She is well trained but still does laps around the house, spins in circles, stalks the cats and what not. Often it is a herding dog thing. Aussie's were bred for a long time to work with cattle, so their nerves are hard as rocks, and tend to bite when in high drive (it's when they do to cattle). In my expierence with intence herding breeds (such as aussies) instead of trying to stop the behavior (which often never works, as it is instinct), just always have a tug toy handy and work with her that way so she can vent her instincts and leave your skin and clothes in tact.

We have the exact same problem with our german shorthair. This dog is a total spaz!! (drive like you wouldn't believe both food and prey) The only thing we correct for is biting. Usually she takes the corrections as part of the game. The harder the correction, the more fun she seems to have. The only exception is the time I gave her (in my opinion) a level 9-1/2 correction, then she stopped for about 2 seconds and then kept on playing. (but the biting stopped) My question is how old should a puppy be before we start to be a little more serious with the corrections? She is only 10 weeks old. And PLEASE tell me this is a puppy thing that will go away. I'm also a little concerned since she doesn't take this seriously, she'll start to feel she doesn't have to take me seriously.

Thanks Tony for zeroing in on much of what I am concerned/wondering about, not so much as to why our pups go nuts, but about correcting a pup, how far to go at what age (acknowleding indiviudal differences of dogs and their state at any given time).

What signs should we be looking for in terms of reactions from our pups? Ed discusses corrections in his videos, but I haven't found the specifics I am looking for regarding correcting puppies, and the 8 weeks to 8 months video has nothing in terms of examples of him giving a correction or actually dealing with problems (realizing, again, that no example would apply for all dogs or situations). But...can we get a little more help?

Thanks again...Matt

Hello Matt & all,

Can we continue this discussion? I have (don't you just love
the, "I also have..." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ) a 13wk GSD, and am waiting
for the $$$ to buy just ONE DVD from Leerburg (anyone want
to donate to "The Cause"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ) but the training articles
are really enough to get started.

I'm trying to determin Sable's "drive" level. How does one
do that? And again, if we can continue the "when do I START
corrections/what age to START corrections"...

Martin

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....Can we continue this discussion?.....I'm trying to determin Sable's "drive" level. How does one do that? And again, if we can continue the "when do I START corrections/what age to START corrections"...

I had saved some threads about puppy corrections, and one about drive, for a friend with a GSD pup who wants to learn about Sch.

Maybe they'll have something you're looking for.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4164924/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/77733/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...rue#Post4141482