I will most seriously deposit ten dollars into the paypal account of whomever can solve my problem.
Background:
Ten weeks ago we bought a two year old Standard Manchester Terrier from a breeder. Maddie is a retired show dog and lived both inside and outside the breeder. Being an extremely short-haired dog she does not like the cold and wet weather. But we discovered she will go outside for long walks, barely use the bathroom, and then sneak off to pee and poo in our home once she is inside.
Hence, I have been crating her, only letting her out for exercise, obedience and agility classes. She has a small bed that I allow her on in the evenings when I can supervise. No accidents as long as she is crated or watched. But, even now, after ten weeks, she will try to do her business in the house rather than go outside in the cold. She knows not to go in her crate, but how do I train her not to do her business inside the house? And she does know it is wrong - on a very cold day I took her outside three times and she would squeeze out a tiny bit of pee, no poop, in the course of 12 hours. I let her off leash in the house to see what she would do and I could tell she was trying to sneak away into the living room where she had done her business before. It was only when she could not hold it any more that she finally did her business when I took her for the fourth time outside.
So the ten dollar question is how do I correct a two year old dog that holds it for hours in a crate, but will eliminate within minutes if she is left unsupervised, even after being on a 45 minute off-leash run? As long as she is crated and watched she is fine, but left alone she will use the house rather than the cold outdoors.

Eek. Not fun. Unfortunately, I think you need to be prepared to not have 100% success (meaning success w/out supervision) because this is a behavior that is ingrained in this dog. Many show breeders do not really train their dogs in the manner pet owners do. Just because they've been permitted in the house occasionally, does NOT mean that they have been housebroken to a typical pet owner's satisfaction. I had one experience where I did not have the time needed that this older dog required, and had to rehome the dog. Puppyhood is the ideal time for this training. Having said that...I hate to be a downer, but I have 2 smaller dogs and one giant dog. The smaller one with SHORT hair will still try to sneak off when back in the house or avoid going outside altogether. As for the walking aspect, for whatever reason, mine will do this too. I try to force the issue by leashwalking, but he just lopes along miserably until we get back inside... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I don't know your breeder personally, but have heard many times that "the breeder assured us he/she was housebroken!" and the dog was FAR from housebroken <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. It happened to me twice. I would try all the conventional things like crating, and treating the dog as if it was a puppy. Taking outside ON LEASH, and bringing back in to the crate if he doesn't go in a reasonable amount of time. This doesn't solve your problem immediately, I know, but don't get discouraged if there's no "quick fix" in this situation. I just know that if I leave the house in the cold, rain, or snow, I'd better crate my little baldy or I will come home to a mess. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Sorry I can't be of more help...

couple of ideas.

don't ever let the dog into the room where it has developed the habit of eliminating.

get a warm coat for the dog. land's end has started selling polar-fleece lined rain jackets for dogs. i've been thinking of getting one myself for when i take my dog backpacking.

Actually had bought her an $80 fleece full body jogger as well as a $65 waterproof coat. She wears them happilly, but her aversion to eliminating in cold or wet weather is very strong, unfortunately.

 Quote:

It was only when she could not hold it any more that she finally did her business when I took her for the fourth time outside.

actually, it sounds like you are already on the right track. it's just that ten weeks isn't long enough to overcome two years of bad habits.

you need to continue to make it impossible for her to go in the house. you need to make it so that going outside is the ONLY experience she ever has, from this day forward. i know, that is a lot of work, but it is the only way she will get housebroken.

every time she goes inside, that behavior is reinforced. she's a creature of habit. don't allow that behavior to happen, and she will be forced to get into a different habit.

i don't know how long it will take, but how long has it been since she went inside?

i'd say if she has had no accident inside for two to three months, you may finally have the problem solved.

litter or paper trained? so maybe used to going inside?
just a guess

Ahh. . .any healthy dog can be housebroken, no matter what prior issues they have had, no matter how often they have eliminated on your carpet already.


This is simple, but you can't make any mistakes.


1. Crate the dog when you can't watch the dog 100% of the time.

2. When you can watch the dog, take it out of the crate and CARRY the dog outside. Tell the dog to go outside, or whatever word you want to use. Wait for the dog to eliminate outside. Praise the dog like crazy and give it a very tasty treat. (something good, like a piece of meat) You don't come inside till the dog has done it's business, period. If the dog has been in the crate awhile, you know it has to go.

3. When you come inside watch the dog every second it's free in the house, no exceptions. If the dog starts giving signs of eliminating, take it out again. Wait till it goes, then praise like crazy and give a really good treat.



This is your whole life for the next three or four weeks.


If you are vigilant you shouldn't have an accident during this time. But, if there is an accident you MUST correct the dog. Take ahold of the dog by the scruff of the neck and give a good verbal correction. Then take the dog outside, hopefully you catch the dog in midstream. . .or midlog. . .that way they still have to go. When you get outside you tell the dog to go outside and wait. When it eliminates you praise and treat.


There cannot be an instance where you don't firmly correct the dog.

There cannot be an instance where you are not watching the dog like a hawk.




Most dogs will learn this way, without making a mistake. Some dogs who already have a bad habit are probably going to need more corrections. You might even have to let them break the rules a number of times so as to correct the snot out of them. Don't set the dog up for failure yet, try the nice way first.

If the dog just won't learn in the next three weeks, then you can set the dog up for failure and spend time correcting the dog and reinforcing the good behavior outside.


This is the only way to do this, there is no magic fix.

You can hit my paypal account in four weeks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Easiest 10 bucks ever made? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Very nicely laid out solution - will follow your directions to a T, and report back on March 18 - asking for your paypal information if the problem is solved. My biggest challenge is that she holds her bladder and bowels very very well. I have stood outside with her for 25 minutes and she has sat there shivering and looking miserable rather than do her business. I am not sure she is the kind of dog who can get treats for using the bathroom. When I started giving treats she would squeeze out a couple of drops, take the treat eagerly, and then let out the real gusher inside the house - argh! My gut feeling is that the hard way method will be what breaks her habit.

I have trained countless puppies and dogs, some with unknown or 'dirty' habits inside.

Cardinal rule---this dog should never EVER be off a leash in the house unless she is in the crate... she should be tethered to you at all times or put in the crate.

some dogs won't relieve themselves on walks, because then the walk ENDS...walks should be separate from potty excursions and there should be a word associated with peeing or pooping outside. whatever word you like to use will be fine.

I don't agree with standing outside for however long it takes... eliminating outside equals fun and playtime in the house (on leash with you). Not eliminating outside equals back in the crate for another hour with another attempt later.

I would put her on lead, take her out for 10 minutes tops, use your word (outside or go potty or whatever) if she actually goes give a lot of praise (i also don't agree with treats for this, your timing has to be excellent so the dog KNOWS the treat is for eliminating, not for getting in the "position" and dribbling a few drops) If she goes outside, then bring her in and play on leash and let her hang out with you for a while (on LEASH). Repeat in an hour or two....once she is doing well with this, then stretch the time between trips outside to longer and longer and be aware that this dog may be on lead in the house for a LONG time... don't be in a rush to take it off.

The key is control the environment 100% for a long time, and gradually ease up. Don't just take the leash off as a test!! Set the dog up for success, she is only doing what she has been allowed to.

Be aware that small dogs don't see eliminating in another room of the house as being wrong. Their personal bubble of space is smaller than a large dog, for them going in another room is psychologically the same as going outside.

Take her for walks and play with her outside, but do the potty walks on a different leash and in the same place every time. Make sure there isn't anything that is intimidating her out there (ie. traffic, neighbor dogs, lots of distractions) Look at things from her point of view and ask the breeder what type of surface she was accustomed to using...if it was not grass, then try to put a patch of her familiar surface in her bathroom area...

You can keep your 10 bucks and buy me a beer in the future...