Hi all,

I am new to this forum looking to start PP with my highly prey driven & guardy male boerboel shortly / will no doubt be using this forum as a valuable rescource. Are there any Boel owners her or is it strictly mals/bouvs/GSD/rotts etc?

Heres a couple of pics from the weekend:

http://www.imagesofny.com/adam/gallery/type.asp?iType=66

jon

I think there were a few Boerboel owners from RSA here and we've had discussions about them in the past - but since no one works them in any venue in the U.S., there's not much discussion about them.

If you manage to title yours in something, please post that because it'd be interesting.

Most of the poster here concentrate on working breeds, mainly GSD"s and Mal's.

Welcome Jonathan, you're dog is looking awesome <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He really was as big as you said <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Will, there are some people working their boerboels in sport. There's a Sch. guy named Norman who's doing really well with his and others also. They just don't post all over the internet about it.

http://www.voy.com/95120/12369.html

http://www.nepstein.neptune.com and click "enter" then click "enter as guest"

The Boerboel is a working breed. Are sport tests designed for herders the appropriate path to take these dogs anyway? I don't think so. When you have a stubborn, sometimes willful dog, that should be naturally protective and you breed to instill the drives of the herders to make them highly successful in sport, it's begging for a disaster IMO. Mastiff breeds need a test specifically designed for them. Who wants a boerboel that's a herder in mastiff clothing? I want a herder, I'll buy one rather than support a total breed renovation that takes a dog away from what it really was. Not that I don't think breeds should be tested, but they should be tested breed appropriately and at this time the sports that are out there are geared toward herding breeds. JMO.

Barbara,
My interpretation of "doing well" would be that the dogs were earning titles, not "he could have earned a title, now it's time to work on tracking, etc" - that's wish fulfillment, and until the breed starts to produce some titles instead of excuses they're not going to be taken seriously by anybody but the yuppie pet crowd who are their main supporters - not trying to be mean here, but that's is exactly what I see..

And the comment that they're a "working breed" - maybe they are in RSA, but here in the U.S. they're overwhelmingly a pet breed owned by novice dog owners.

I hear that "well, the breed is designed for something else" statement all the time, but almost all of these mastiff type breed don't do well in reality based personal protection sports ( like PSA or ASR ) either, so I see a lot of talking but virtually no proof of their ability.
And the people that buy these dogs almost never have a serious dog background to begin with, so what they consider as protection usually isn't seen as that by professional's.

Welcome to the forum Jon, there's plenty of people here with various breeds of dog other than shepherds and mal's.

Well bred boerboels are definitely not dogs for most yuppies, and honestly I don't know a single yuppy who would even entertain the thought of one.

Sometimes, what sport people see as protection, people who really need a PP dog don't... I hear, I don't want to 'hurt' the dog, blah blah blah. What does that mean? They don't want to test a dog against a true threat style attack? I'm not talking baseball bats here, although there are some that test that way. Also, reality based sports really aren't reality no matter how close you try to make them and a smart mastiff will pick up on that. Any mastiff that doesn't protect his owner in a sport or real is a cull as far as I'm concerned. As far as obedience goes, you're not going to find the herder level of it. Mastiffs are willful and if they don't see the sense of something, they might not do it. That willful FU attitude is part of what makes them cool <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> They're a challenge. There definitely needs to be some type of organized test for them, I just don't see the sports out there designed for herders as the answer. If you're looking for a bodyguard, a well bred one will do, with very little to no training.

I think Norman has done a great job with his. Kudo's to him for trying <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Barb,
I've heard the "mastiff's are willfull" also for like 20 odd years - yet I was able to put multiple titles on a few, up to a CDX and win a HIT at a Mastiff National Specialty event.
It's a lot more that they're just a mentally slow breed ( they're low rated on the canine IQ scale ).

They're a poor choice as a canine ppd, and you may note that no serious ppd provider sells them as "bodyguards".

I'm sorry, ya'll are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but if it makes ya'll feel better, go ahead and fool yourself.
< shrug >

But if you're mastiffs had a degree of sharpness, would you have been as successful? I think it's great you accomplished that with yours, sharp or not it must not have been as easy as working with a herder.

 Quote:

They're a poor choice as a canine ppd, and you may note that no serious ppd provider sells them as "bodyguards".

One that is a natural guardian is not going to be an easy dog to handle, and if you sell adult dogs, the transfer is most likely not going to work. People who need PPD's aren't usually very experienced. It's not likely they are going to be able to correct a dog of that caliber as hard as it needs to be. These dogs bond very closely to their owners. Without the strong bond the dog isn't going to do squat for you, and if you get it as an adult, chances are the dog is mourning the person he thought was his last owner. You can't transfer these dogs like a herder, so unless you got one as a pup and bonded to it, you're not going to have a protector unless it's a junkyard dog. This makes it a very poor choice for a security company to raise, train and then sell.

 Quote:

I'm sorry, ya'll are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but if it makes ya'll feel better, go ahead and fool yourself.

LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I've never heard that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I'm not trying to make anyone feel better, I'm just trying to help you understand. Are they the compliant dogs herders are? No way, but well bred ones are formidable beasts and a perfect body guard. Sport dog or competition dog, no. If it was, chances are I wouldn't be interested in those lines.

We had a girl bring a couple of these dogs to our club, and they were duds big time. Avoidance behaviors when we were trying to get them to play with a rag. I definately wouldn't want to think these dogs were going to save the day, they would be lucky to save themselves.

Hi Jeff,

There are cr@p dogs in all breeds. I have met a few nervous BB that were fierce out of bad nerves / I doubt they would be any good. I have also met some incredible dogs.

I already know that Saint will protect as he has already done it. I am not doing the training because I am foolish enough to think that a BB would perform as well as a Mali - I am doing the training to further my controll of him / should he feel the need to protect again I will have the ability to call him off with ease.

jon