http://members.boardhost.com/iccf/msg/1141690001.html

Check it out...not to shabby. Wonder if Enzo will go for level one?

And a Boxer. Nice variety.

Enzo has a bit of training to go for level I, which is a tough test of a dog, but he's gotten further than any other CC and I hope he's shown in future trials. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We had Mals, GSDs, Rotts, Boxers, and Cane Corso's all show this weekend. We had about a 50% pass rate in Entry level and a 75% pass rate at Level I, which was great ( I was the only one to fail with a "DQ" when Fetz bit Matt Hammond the decoy on the side of the head <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

Hi Will

Great to know you were present. I own a 6 mo. old Corso who is currently training with the folks at http://www.barriquesmalinois.net
Was curious as to your thoughts on strong/weak points of the breed, how they may be best trained, any thoughts at all...

Well, all the Mastiff-type breeds have that "intimidation" factor that could well simply prevent a bad event from happening because they look so impressive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
They have a bark that'll wake the dead and they're a good deterrent in my book .
If they can actually manage to catch the person, they have an impressive bite and a good one with the correct nerves could be taught to do an impressive hold & bark ( or bite ).

However......all of the Mastiff-types suffer from a lack of speed and agility ( they're very easy to dodge and escape from ) and they all suffer from a unacceptably high percentage of "bad nerve cases". I'm actually losing count of the number of the mastiff-types that I've seen run off a field by a determined attacker ( and some of the rare breed mastiff-types are at 100% run off rate, there's just no way that an informed person that's looking for a ppd would use them ).

I have a real problem with the amount of hype that the mastiff-type folks give their dogs - which changes to excuses when the dogs fail, which is so often the case.
It's fine to have a preference for a breed, but you have to be realistic about their abilities, and I don't know why so many owners of these off breeds have such strong views without any proof of what they claim.



So their strengths:

Loud bark
Formidable appearance and deterrence factor


Their weaknesses:

Lack of speed and agility
Frequent nerve issues
On the lower end of canine IQ and lower trainability level
High degree of owner 'blindness" regarding the breeds flaws
Rapid fatigue related to their size

HI Will,

All points well taken. I hope my dog can hold some titles and gain some respect for the Corso. Right now the biggest challenge is building his focus. I have the Flinks DVD, and so far, so good. The breed is a bit slow to mature, so it is a bit disheartening to see my trainers Malinois at the same age doing leg bites, but he is getting there.....

Wow. Is Matt ok? I hope he didn't get seriously injured. And may I ask how the heck he got bit on the side of the head?

On another note this is just further example of why this is SERIOUS work. Will and Matt are both very experienced and seasoned dog trainers so if this can happen to them it can happen to anybody. So be careful and be safe.

Congrats. to the Corso <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Will, this my last post on this whole mastiff hype topic, but I had to say, by posting I was not hyping these breeds, and I agree with your post on the weaknesses, strengths of the mastiffs completely. I just have not seen mastiffss who won't protect. Other people's mastiffs that don't aren't all that concerning to me. I don't want to think about or even talk about other people's dogs who are crap. As a trainer I see the reason you mention it all the time though. I'd rather talk about the positive points of the good dogs. It goes without saying that there's junk in all breeds. Hopefully ASR and other sports will sprout up that can give them a level playing field.

You mention lower end of the canine IQ; funnily enough I gave my male some IQ tests and he scored very high. The thing is, I wouldn't consider him highly intelligent. My female who is 100 x smarter scored lower... My male is smart, but not that smart. Do the canine IQ tests test intelligence, or trainability? They're different. Don't even bother to answer I think I've already made you mad and I honestly didn't mean to <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, I'll stay away from these topics from now on, they always seem to end bad.

correction, I watched a Presa that wouldn't protect naturally. I still don't feel the need to classify all dogs by him. He seemed show bred. There will always be people dulling breeds. Maybe it might be better that way, then having people who can't handle a dog get one and it attacks people. As long as people don't show breed them and say they're something they're not.

I did bitework with an 18 month old presa last night... if the sleeve we used didn't have a bite bar I'd be hurting today... oh wait, I am hurting today because I was working the GSD on a bitesuit jacket... it was the first time I put on a bite suit jacket, and I said "boy, I think they went a little overkill on the padding" since it was about 10x thicker than the jute sleeve I normally work with..... after taking a bite in that thing from the GSD I retracted my statement <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />