Jenni Williams wrote 03/22/2006 02:36 PM Back injury? #101682 - 03/22/2006 02:36 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Hi everyone. I came home from work to find my chihuahua walking very slowly and crossing his back legs over each other. He is extraordinarily quiet, and his tail is tucked way under his body. He even seems a little wobbly. I immediately thought it might be a neurological problem, but he is not at all disoriented (like stroke), and wanted to go for a ride (very normal), but couldn't get in the car. I did this to see if it was physical or neurological, and this made me think physical. He's going to the vet as soon as I leave work, but I'm a little worried about this, so I thought I'd get some opinions. He's 6, has epilepsy, but is in awesome health otherwise. I'm thinking a slipped disc or something along those lines...what do you all think? Connie? Any similar experiences?
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Will Rambeau wrote 03/22/2006 02:53 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Jenni Williams ] #101683 - 03/22/2006 02:53 PM
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003 Posts: 5983 Loc: Idaho Offline	Ackk....Jenni! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Widget has a history of seizures, so has he ever had a "post-ictal" state after the seizure? ( that's where the dog slowly returns to a normal mental state, they can act confused during this period ). His current symptoms sound like that... Hope it's nothing serious for your little guy! The Fetz dog: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/79673/page/25
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Jenni Williams wrote 03/22/2006 02:59 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Will Rambeau ] #101684 - 03/22/2006 02:59 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	No-that was my first thought. He always bounces back really fast, and even during the seizure, he is coherent. That's why I asked him a question (Wanna go for a ride?) that he ALWAYS responds the same way to, so I could judge if it was a mental thing or purely physical. He knew exactly what I meant, isn't the least bit confused, but just walked wobbly all the way to the car, and then looked at me to pick him up. He usually springs into the car. It seems physical, but who knows? Just because his seizures haven't been like this before doesn't mean they can't change. He did scream, though, when I was holding him and my smaller GSD jumped up on me and *BARELY* brushed his back. He also tensed up a lot when I picked him up, as if bracing himself because it was going to hurt. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/22/2006 03:20 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Jenni Williams ] #101685 - 03/22/2006 03:20 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: No-that was my first thought. He always bounces back really fast, and even during the seizure, he is coherent. That's why I asked him a question (Wanna go for a ride?) that he ALWAYS responds the same way to, so I could judge if it was a mental thing or purely physical. He knew exactly what I meant, isn't the least bit confused, but just walked wobbly all the way to the car, and then looked at me to pick him up. He usually springs into the car. It seems physical, but who knows? Just because his seizures haven't been like this before doesn't mean they can't change. He did scream, though, when I was holding him and my smaller GSD jumped up on me and *BARELY* brushed his back. He also tensed up a lot when I picked him up, as if bracing himself because it was going to hurt. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> There are so many possibilities, including a "slipped" disc, or a ruptured disc. I don't pretend to know a lot about this subject; I don't. But here's a site I go to a lot: http://www.vetinfo.com/ddyspla.html http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dspine.html http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/doglame.html Maybe what Will said about the post-seizure period......maybe it could be that he is starting to have a slower comeback? I too hope it's not serious. I hope you will post back.
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Jenni Williams wrote 03/22/2006 05:27 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #101686 - 03/22/2006 05:27 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Well, the news is not good. He has a neurological disease called intra(er?)vertebral disc disease. It is degenerative, and eventually will cause total loss of use of back legs and muscle control from the damaged point down. When that happens, I have about 24 hrs to get him into surgery, or the spinal cord will be irrepairable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I love all my dogs, but this is my BUDDY . I am not going to just put him on steroids and forget about it. Walking long distances (5-7mi+) is his absolute favorite thing to do; he's by far my most athletic dog, and he loves to do crazy stunts and jumps. He is not going to be a dog happy to just lie in bed all day, like the vet insinuated most little dogs do w/this disease. I don't see why I'd wait to do surgery until he can't walk at all, other than the obvious risk of spinal injury and paralysis. He also has epilepsy, so it's possible that this is just part of the crappy neurological package he got stuck with.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/22/2006 05:32 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Jenni Williams ] #101687 - 03/22/2006 05:32 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Well, the news is not good. He has a neurological disease called intra(er?)vertebral disc disease. It is degenerative, and eventually will cause total loss of use of back legs and muscle control from the damaged point down. When that happens, I have about 24 hrs to get him into surgery, or the spinal cord will be irrepairable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I love all my dogs, but this is my BUDDY . I am not going to just put him on steroids and forget about it. Walking long distances (5-7mi+) is his absolute favorite thing to do; he's by far my most athletic dog, and he loves to do crazy stunts and jumps. He is not going to be a dog happy to just lie in bed all day, like the vet insinuated most little dogs do w/this disease. I don't see why I'd wait to do surgery until he can't walk at all, other than the obvious risk of spinal injury and paralysis. He also has epilepsy, so it's possible that this is just part of the crappy neurological package he got stuck with. Oh, Jenni, I am SO sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If you want, I'll forward to you the three or four vet sites I've saved which address that surgery. I see what you mean -- why is there a recommended wait to perform the surgery? Are you considering asking for a referral to a specialist? I'm so sorry. What a blow.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/22/2006 05:37 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Jenni Williams ] #101688 - 03/22/2006 05:37 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Well, the news is not good. He has a neurological disease called intra(er?)vertebral disc disease. The first URL here (Purdue) specifically addresses Intervertebral Disc Disease. http://www.vet.purdue.edu/cpr/IVDD.html http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=428 http://www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/degen-disk.html
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Jenni Williams wrote 03/22/2006 05:42 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #101689 - 03/22/2006 05:42 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Thanks to Caleb's misdiagnosed torn ACL, I found a great ortho/neuro guy who I fully intend to ask what the best course of action is. The vet today said that they're usually pretty good after surgery, but most people don't want to pay for it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />! So, I don't know what the practical reality of it is, because most people don't even bother to try. I hope the neurologist can shed some light on alternatives and prognosis/recovery/risk statistics.
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Jenni Williams wrote 03/22/2006 05:43 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #101690 - 03/22/2006 05:43 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	I forgot to thank you guys...it always seems to be you two! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Jenni Williams wrote 03/22/2006 06:51 PM Re: Back injury? [Re: Jenni Williams ] #101691 - 03/22/2006 06:51 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Well, I called the specialist I took Caleb to, and again I am left thinking he must be the nicest vet in the world. He had no appointments, so he's taking what was presumably his lunch to see Widget, at the normal consultation fee, not the emergency fee that I'd pay for a next-day appointment. In a way, it scares me a little that he thinks it's that serious it can't wait until Friday, but I'm relieved to have him in this guy's hands ASAP. He also is going to try to do any necessary diagnostics all tomorrow, so I don't need to bring him back for multiple visits. From what I read from Connie's links, it's not a good prognosis at all without surgery. Total paralysis with loss of bladder, bowel, and feeling is the result <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.
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