Hello All.

I'm the proud owner of a 4 month sable coat GSD from superior bloodlines and a world recognized breeder. He is my first working dog, I plan on doing Schutzhund work with him. I've spent (much to my wife's dismay) about $400 on Leerburg training DVD's and watched them all from start to finish mutiple times.

In Ed's video on raising a working puppy he discusses socialization and what sort of dog-on-dog interaction with other adult dogs is ideal, basically a very, very, non aggressive, calm dog that is comfortable around puppies. I've also read about this in other literature on the subject so I've been very controlling of what kind of dog-on-dog interaction my pup gets. If I don't know the other dog and how they'll act around my pup, we steer clear. I think all in all my dog has been socialized with 2 other adult dogs, one was a Persian Husky(?) female that was in her early teens and about as calm of a dog as anyone could ever find, she moves at about 2 steps an hour and even if my dog is jumping up on her she doesn't blink. The other was a bit younger and bit more active female labrador retriever. All in all, those interactions went as well as could be expected. However, I will walk away from people coming towards me or my pup that have dogs which are obviously very aggressive or hyper, dogs that are practically choking themselves on lead just to get at my pup. I've told more people than I can remember to keep their dog away from us who've then looked at me like I was the biggest jerk they'd ever met. "Can I pet your puppy?" "No." or "Please keep your dog away from us, thank you."

So, to make a long story longer, I'm starting to get worried that he hasn't been socialized enough as he's becoming very aggressive towards other dogs. If a dog is walking by us, 50 feet away, my pup will go on full out "get at them" mode. It appears to me, that even at 4 months of age, without ever having a negative dog experience, he's becoming aggressive towards them. This morning while walking him we encountered a little tiny female Yorkshire Terrier, she was probably about the size of my forearm. My pup lost it, he just started growling and barking ferociously, doing all he could to get at her. The Yorkie seemed unphased and because of her size I thought it might be a good dog to let him try and interact with as her owner didn't seem to mind that my pup was obviously being very active and vocal. Once I let him get close enough, he just kind of smelled her, as she did him, no biting or anything like that, it seemed to go just great. The second she walked away from him he just went nuts trying to get back at her, so I brought him near her again and same thing, they just smelled each other, everything went well, soon as she left he went ballistic. Is he just overly excited to socialize or is he genuinely aggressive? This Yorkie was about the size of his breakfasts, if he wanted to bite or become aggressive I would think he would have.

Any thoughts?

I'll tell you my experience, you can use it however you like...

I got my pup at 4 months old, whenever he saw dogs he'd bark like he was being aggressive from a distance, but if you'd let him go up to the dogs he'd knock it off and sniff the other dogs butt n try to play. He played with far too many dogs when he was a pup, he got picked on by a friends male doberman when they played, my friends female wouldn't leave him alone when he just wanted to lay down n relax so he'd snap at her, a neighbors dog ran at him off leash n bit his nose so he had a scratch on his nose from that, n generally had bad experiences with dogs, even the ones I allowed him to play with because people told me "oh they're just playing"... after a while of this I decided, NO, no more other dogs, he doesn't need it, there's no point to it, I can run around with him myself and bond with him myself. Unfortunately due to his experiences with dogs he started to focus on other dogs whenever one was in sight n try to run up to them n go crazy... it took alotta work to get him to where he is now, but he has very little interest in other dogs now, still interested in them to a point, but overall his obedience doesn't faulter most of the time when another dog is around. The only issue I have left that I am working on is his hatred for my helpers male GSD... he's come a long way though, they can be near eachother and even sniff eachother, but they can't interact much beyond walking around the same room while on a leash. I figure another 3-6 months n he'll be absolutely fine, he's come a long way with his dog aggression issues...

For my next pup, the only dogs she will be exposed to is dogs like my helpers dog who has absolutely no interest in other dogs, and my own GSD Cujo because they will be living in the same house together. Cujo does fine with females which is why I chose to get a female pup, the odds are higher that he'll tollerate a female than a male when the pup matures. If the pup focuses or barks at other dogs, I would try to refocus the pups attention onto playing with me, I'm more interesting than the other dog! If the pup gets to be older and still were to have aggression issues with other dogs, it'd be time for corrections, possibly a dominant dog collar, I don't know much about its use so I say "maybe". But odds are if you keep yourself more interesting than the other dogs and don't tense up or make a big deal about it, your pup will grow up to not care much about other dogs.

I cross the street or tighten the leash n get all the way over out of the way in the grass if someone walks up the street when I'm with my dog, I don't like just every idiot to pet him and I don't want him playing with other dogs.

Good luck, dog aggression sucks, but if you work with a puppy you can minimize problems in adulthood, just never let a bad experience happen to your dog because you'll have your hands full. Correcting my boy's dog aggression issues is probably an 18 month task, I don't focus on it or intentionally go out trying to fix the problem, I work on it when the opportunity calls for it. The more you focus on a problem the more of a problem it becomes, just go on with life n make sure you do what you're supposed to do to protect your pup.

Are you sure your dog isn't mirroring your own reactions? (emotions def travel down the lead). When passing a strange dog, let your pup look, but keep walking & stay calm, & quiet. Don't pet him, just keep him moving.

Also, I agree with Mike. Your dog doesn't need other dog "friends" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mike-

Awesome, well thought out post, thanks!

All in all, for the most part, I'm onboard with what your saying. I remember Ed Frawley's video on raising a working pup and how he explains that you need to show the pup that your the most interesting person out there. I travel with Liver Biscotti and Grizzly NuTreats in my pocket to reward my pup when he realizes this.

Yes, I'm sure. I've been with dogs since I was a kid, am about 6'5" 260lbs and to be completely honest, most dogs don't intimidate me in the least. I actually encourage my dog to be sociable if the situation calls for it. "Isn't she a pretty girl, look at her...oohh, such a nice dog.." etc etc. If I keep him in the front room with me and the window open and a dog walks by our house, he's at the window ready to jump through it, barking, growling etc. All the while I'm sitting in the other room doing some work. That is certainly not a reflection of my feelings.

I sort of misworded my last post and can no longer edit it. My front living room area and main workspace are two seperate, attached rooms with no door in between. I'm technically with him but a room apart.

Some more info to read up on for socialization is on these sites:

Raising a working dog puppy

Early Life Management

While I don't want my dog thinking every and all dogs are their friends, and/or other dogs are more important than I am, I think sometimes we accidentally isolate our pups more than we should the first year. Dogs/pups have to LEARN how to be dogs/pups. There is alot of body language going on between them that is way to subtle for we 'stupid' humans to pick up on. We get the barking/growling/lunging, but miss the looks/sniffing/tail set/yawning/etc that also may be going on between the dogs that means everything to them.

I do the best to make sure all my pups meetings are with friendly dogs and turn out well. But in doing that, we meet alot of dogs. Not all crazy play meetings, but around/near/and among alot of other dogs. So that other dogs are NO BIG DEAL. Nothing to be A CRAZY WILD DISTRACTION. More like tree, car, fire hydrant, new dog. And the only way I've gotten my dogs to be this way is by them being around a TON of dogs.

With both my GSD's I've raised them around alot of dogs. I go to group dog classes so they learn in a controlled environment and with other dogs as a distraction. With both my GSD's, their first year or so showed me they were much more willing to run up to say hey to any dog they would see. But gradually, after about a year, the 'aloof' thing started kicking in so that dogs they KNOW, they still get rather excited and happy to see, but new dogs? Not so much. Just kind of a look to gauge them, and then they can move on.

I have found that I can be the center of my dogs life, and my dogs can still see and be around other people and other dogs. That doesn't take anything away from all the hard work we do to bond, train, play and work together. I am the center of my dog's world. But it's a safe world, they are confident and secure in, because I do socialize them around so many new people and new dogs it is hard to throw them off stride for more than a few seconds. And my dogs? This way I can have them be a true part of my life. So I can have any friends and relatives over, and they can bring their friendly dogs to stay. I do not have to kennel my dogs, but can have them enjoy stays at my friends homes when I am out of town, with their dogs (or not). I can go to any hotel/motel. Walk down any street.

What do you think about Bart Bellon's interview he did with Mike Ellis, where he states that he doesn't want a dog that needs socialization?

Here is the site, with the interview.http://www.finographics.com/schutzhund/interviews/bartbellon.html